Both of these pilots were qualified on the airplane. They by no means "slipped through the cracks". How many hours did you have when you got hired?

How many FO's at PSA were icing prior to being hired? I would venture to say NONE.

Do you have a source about Becky Shaw being fired from CHQ? I think you're talking about someone else, who by the way was recently released from Colgan Air.

 

All right SS, you should probably chill just a bit. Your concerns are valid, but you also need to understand that these 2 pilots do not deserve to be slandered. I have stated in previous posts that this accident, much like over 80% of others, was caused by pilot error in some form. However, I believe these 2 pilots are not villains that should be spoken harshly of. The "guilty" party is the "system" that allows inexperienced or ill-equipped pilots into the cockpit of an airliner.

When it comes down to it, it's all about money. It starts with the majors who farm out their lift to regionals to save money. They use other regionals to whipsaw against each other which reduces the quality of EVERYTHING!!! The regionals can't afford to pay pilots what they should make because if they do they'll lose money. If they bid too high for flying they'll lose it to another regional that is willing to do it for cheaper at the expense of the labor group. The system is broken. The majors will never admit it, but they are the root of the problem!!! You notice how although these passengers purchased a ticket on Continental Airlines, Continental is distancing themselves from this accident as much as they possibly can.

Continental and these other majors DISGUST me with these practices, which is why I left the regionals, and the airline industry. I've flown fatigued, done more reduced rest overnights than I can count, eaten sh*t out of vending machines for dinner....all for pennies. It's crap what regional pilots have to go through to try to get to a major.

I hope my previous posts have not come across as personal attacks or slanders against these pilots. My heart breaks for them and the other victims.


P.S. I'd like to hear Larry Kellner's opinion on this topic. After Gordon Bethune left, he made it his mission to destroy/dismantle ExpressJet (which, WAS one of the only decent regionals and has TOP NOTCH training) and go to the lowest bidder, which just happened to be flying these passengers to Buffalo that night.

 

With all the talk about the fatigue factor I am seriously hoping we get real reforms in this area.

FAR reform so that ALL airlines must comply with an imposed federal law rather then use it as a bargaining carrot largely ignored by the regionals trying to reclaim their ongoing concessions.

Especially the use of High Speeds, Continuous Duty Overnights etc.. I know some people enjoy them for their commuter friendliness. But they are also largely abused. After just completing one this morning It may be my own fatigue but I feel passionately they aren't contributing to the safety of a carrier as a whole. How about we put someone who just came off three of these overnights through a normal PC and see how that compares to their scheduled PC and note the change?

Having flown for 3 121 carriers I know they aren't necessary, and the cost of more crews on overnights in my opinion is definitely worth it.

I am also thinking many pilots put this fatigue on themselves with their own life choices. I would be willing to wager many pilots are not fatigue due to working two jobs, (like the BBC piece insinuates,) but because of the ridiculous commutes that are self imposed. We all know the stories of cross-continent/ocean commutes. I'm thinking there could be some company recourse for employees who choose these commutes without allowing proper rest before flights.

My deepest sympathies and condolences to the friends and family of all lost.

RIP- Colgan 3407 Crew and Passengers, KK, PDC

 

Its sad that these pilots are dead and now are going to be dragged through the streets and can't defend themselves. Think about what it would be like if the world got to listen to the tapes from the last few flights you flew or got to second guess everything you did. Take it easy.

 

My thoughts and concerns regarding this incident exactly!

Best post I have read in a very long time, but you'll never get our media crazy/hyper capitalist "cut costs at all costs" culture to admit it. Not as long as they can fly from New York to Vegas for $79!

 

Just quoting what the news said. Not my words, dude.

 

The argument is that people that are truly smart are either not becoming pilots and/or are leaving the industry. This as a result has lowered the standards and experience required to get a job. If you paid more you would attract more people and could better screen pilots. This is the argument at least.

As to this idle chatter below 10,000, they were breaking cockpit procedures but I see no way this played any part in the accident. The chatter stopped a few minutes before everything hit the fan.

 

Anyone....? I think this was discussed at length soon after the accident. It's the stuff you don't see every day that can get ya.

...and I would have to say you are wrong.

 

"How do you train unusual attitudes in an aircraft that is part 25 certified and isnt certified for unusual attitudes???"

Uhhh... I'm going out on a limb here.... simulator training? I'm pretty sure my plane is not certified for a no-engine approach, but we train for them.

 

Also, it is the pergogative of the flight crew member to repo from Seattle to Jersey to start a tour. Don't even try to lay this on the airline. Her base was Newark. Plain and simple. Consider it a privlidge to commute for free, but don't use it as an excuse for fatigue.