Originally Posted by hemaybedid

In a free market economy labor unions hinder the growth and strength of the economy. Basic economics models show this. I have had the same debate your wife and yourself are having with myself many times. In many of our large manufacturing industries labor unions have had an enormous detremental effect on our economy and have led to higher than necessary costs being passed on to the consumer. When a labor union negotiates 50 to 80 thousand dollar wages for unskilled and only basically educated workers it is bad for all of us, such as in the auto and steel industries just to name a few. However; when it comes to skilled, highly trained professional labor groups I have nearly convinced myself that labor unions are necessary. In the airline industry where safety and standardization are paramount it becomes nearly impossible for a pilot to compete for promotions and differentiate themselfs from other pilots. So we have to rely on our union to negotiate our labor to management. Without our unions we would be working to the maximums allowed in the regs and doing it for whatever the lowest bidder was willing to do it for. Those are the arguments I have come up with for union necessity for airline pilots.

Originally Posted by elfouquer

My wife has this crazy idea that unions are bad, and they are bad for business. I have tried every arguement that I can think of that without the union, life would be much worse. She even had the nerve to ask "If your company(9e) goes on strike, can't you keep working?" So I am asking anyone out there that might be able to provide some good arguements that I may not have thought of in order to change her mind. Please don't bash my wife as I love her dearly, she just has some crazy notions that need to be turned around. Thanks in advance.

Originally Posted by Lab Rat

Let me play devil's advocate for a moment. (and no, I am not in management)

Put yourself in the shoes of a manager running a regional airline. Realistically, we can surmise that there is no shortage of people willing to
take flying jobs for low pay, low benefits, and lousy QOL issues. With that being said, where is the incentive for management to raise the bar when there is a surplus of people willing to lower it even further?

I would say a natural product of capitalism is supply and demand.

Originally Posted by Zapata

To say that labor should only represent and negotiate living wages for your definition of skilled and highly trained professional labor groups is elitist. There is no reason that unskilled labor groups shouldn't be able to negotiate a living wage and QOL for themselves. Overall, representation for labor at ANY level is good for the economy.

Originally Posted by Famos_Amos

This is exactly why there needs to be ONE union for ALL US airline pilots. What is the point of your airline's union fighting for fair wages and work rules when it ultimately makes the airline less competitve with a non-union carrier? (or worse, another carrier represented by the same national union with pilot wages and QOL markedly below the industry average!!) It's time for all of us to put an end to management and our own individual unions allowing us to undermine other pilot groups by accepting lower pay and work rules.
We need ONE national union representing all of us; one payscale based on seats/cargo capacity per airframe and one seniority list. Too many of us have put way to much time, money, and effort into our carrers to lose our jobs to others willing to work for less.

Rant over. Need a 6-er.

Originally Posted by hemaybedid

It's my opinion that most of the unskilled labor groups in the U.S. shouldn't be unionized and some shouldn't even exist in the U.S. The workers in these groups should use our excellent educational opportunities to gain technical and advanced skills which would allow them to gain employment in a more advanced field which would benefit us all. I do not feel that this opinion is elitist.

Originally Posted by elfouquer

My wife has this crazy idea that unions are bad, and they are bad for business. I have tried every arguement that I can think of that without the union, life would be much worse. She even had the nerve to ask "If your company(9e) goes on strike, can't you keep working?" So I am asking anyone out there that might be able to provide some good arguements that I may not have thought of in order to change her mind. Please don't bash my wife as I love her dearly, she just has some crazy notions that need to be turned around. Thanks in advance.

Originally Posted by hemaybedid

It's my opinion that most of the unskilled labor groups in the U.S. shouldn't be unionized and some shouldn't even exist in the U.S. The workers in these groups should use our excellent educational opportunities to gain technical and advanced skills which would allow them to gain employment in a more advanced field which would benefit us all. I do not feel that this opinion is elitist.

Originally Posted by Zapata

Not only are you in favor of excluding an entire demographic from a privilege granted by labor laws solely based on their chosen fields, but you're also in favor that this demographic shouldn't even exist in the USA? Your opinion is more than elitist, it is downright un American.

According to one definition of most dictionaries, your opinion is elitist.

The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.