Forget about 'payroll' for a minute. This is a SENIORITY list integration, not a DOH list integration. Seniority at pinnacle has absolutely nothing to do with DOH. We have a valid seniority list ordered by age in each class. You try to argue your points with the DOH definition in ALPA merger policy, and yet if you applied it as you want then you would violate that same cherished policy by up-ending a legitimate, valid, and approved seniority list at Pinnacle.

I want some to explain to me how we can use our original DOH and it be ok to completely jack up ALPA merger policy in the process by having people jump ahead of other people on the seniority list just becuse they took their checkride first. I know no one can explain it because it's not possible.

Again, everyone needs to understand that SENIORITY and DOH have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with each other at pinnacle. It's a foreign concept because this is not the case at any other airline that I know of. But again you cannot use an arbitrary DOH to remake a legal and valid seniority list that followed the CBA and seniority list practices at all other airlines.

 

I can only speak for myself.

 

It's going to make a huge difference if Bloch decides to integrate using DOH in any fashion.

 

Right, but that's the point - if he uses our original DOH in the award then he would be violating ALPA merger policy in the process by having people awarded positions out of the order of their original seniority. The only way he can use DOH in any methodology is to factor out the randomness of our original DOH's. And the only way to do that is to tie our DOH to something that correlates directly to seniority. And the only thing that relates directly to seniority is the date of the start of class.

 

Look, I understand all of that, that's how I expected it to happen.

I'm trying to figure out the logic of the XJ SLI team.

 

You're missing the the forest for the trees.

The kicker is that the DOH on the ID isn't your seniority order necessarily. The seniority order is determined the day you start class. People junior to you frequently have a DOH on their ID that is before your DOH b/c it went by the date you passed your checkride.

Therefore, it is only logical that class start date be utilized as DOH if DOH has anything to do with any portion of the integration.

 

No, I get all that.

I want to know if there is any leg to stand on by XJ getting 9E's current list thrown out because it doesn't follow ALPA guidelines for a legit seniority list.

 

Ok let me put it this way in a non-aviation example:

Everyone is born with a specific birthday. This birthday determines their age at any given time. People graduate college at a specific date but not everyone is the same age. Prodigies can do it in their early teens while other take into their 20's, 30's, or even decades longer. There is no correlation between a person's age and the time they graduate college.

But what if someone went and tried to look at the date of graduation for a person and tried to determine their age? That would be stupid and illogical because age has absolutely nothing to do with the date a person graduates from college (within reason of course). You can't say 'well this person graduated on date X and this person graduated on date Y, therefore the person who graduated on date X must be older.'. The opposite is also true. You cannot say that person A will graduate before person B simply because person A was born a few weeks ahead of person B.

This is the same setup as trying to take a Pinnacle DOH (graduation) and determine someone's seniority (age). Alternatively you cannot take a persons seniority number and be able to determine their DOH from that information alone. They have nothing to do with each other and thus one cannot be used to determine the other.

 

What list would you propose that they use then? Using the DOH on the ID's would cause a shuffle in seniority order in the pinnacle list itself, which is a blatant violation of the SLI process.

So no.. there is no leg to stand on.

 

It's a legit seniority list because seniority is determined by age within each class. They are not contesting the order in which are pilots appear on the list. They are contesting the corrected DOH associated with each person on the list. You can't throw out the seniority list because it is what it is - a listing of our pilots from most senior to most junior. They can't throw out the DOH data because of all the reasons I've already brought up. So no, I see no way that this list will he thrown out.