XJT Hiring Pool
04-29-2012, 08:12 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: bar stool
Posts: 771
I am dumbfounded by some of the ASA guys opinions on this topic. I don't even know what to say. Only that I hope these opinions are in the minority. Lay off the kool-aid.
I'll be sure to think about how expensive we are next time I am counting my pennies in front of pax in my sparkling uniform outside of McDonalds to check if it is in my budget to buy myself a snack-wrap. Maybe we can even think of putting up drop-boxes in the crew-rooms to donate money back to the company if we'd like.
I'll be sure to think about how expensive we are next time I am counting my pennies in front of pax in my sparkling uniform outside of McDonalds to check if it is in my budget to buy myself a snack-wrap. Maybe we can even think of putting up drop-boxes in the crew-rooms to donate money back to the company if we'd like.
04-29-2012, 08:34 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2011
Position: Not sure anymore
Posts: 206
Originally Posted by stoki
I am dumbfounded by some of the ASA guys opinions on this topic. I don't even know what to say. Only that I hope these opinions are in the minority. Lay off the kool-aid.
I'll be sure to think about how expensive we are next time I am counting my pennies in front of pax in my sparkling uniform outside of McDonalds to check if it is in my budget to buy myself a snack-wrap. Maybe we can even think of putting up drop-boxes in the crew-rooms to donate money back to the company if we'd like.
I'll be sure to think about how expensive we are next time I am counting my pennies in front of pax in my sparkling uniform outside of McDonalds to check if it is in my budget to buy myself a snack-wrap. Maybe we can even think of putting up drop-boxes in the crew-rooms to donate money back to the company if we'd like.
Although we may have vastly different contracts, work rules and perceptions we are both under the same management team now. Comments like his and the constant mud slinging accomplishes what?
We both want improvements in out next contract and arguing about the past XJT and using 2nd and 3rd hand information in your argument doesn't get us closer to that.
Fact. XJT, ASA, SKW, have never gone bankrupt.
Fact. With the funds that Inc. has in the bank this will not happen anytime in the near or distant future.
Fact. Regardless of you feeling about the separate groups we are run by a (Relatively) very competent and efficient management teams that, dare I say it, know how to run an airline.
Pilot wages WILL NOT bankrupt an airline.
Come on guys, let's be sensible here!
04-29-2012, 08:51 AM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 326
Originally Posted by Red97Vette
Wow.
first, you want to keep up with cost of inflation? So thats about a 5% pay raise every year. Have fun with that, I would love to have a pay raise like every year but that is in no way sustainable. You apparently showed up to the party 10 years late with no clue what is going on. This is a gripe everyone in the whole US economy has had to deal with for a while now and no one likes it.
second, didnt Continental pull a lot of flying for you guys? oh and your failed solution to create your own airline to recover the losses...that went well, didnt it? Then continental came and "begged" to have you come back, ...but at significantly lower rates, ones that you were loosing money on the whole time? Thats an AWESOME deal man. no way you guys could have been headed for BK with a contract that was signed at a loss. oh and that whole 100% 50 seat airline concept...thats got a future in it that cant fail either.
ASA/Skywest isnt brainwashing any of us. If you have a brain you can realize the state of the industry and what is needed to succeed. You can think we are conceding all you want and hide behind your screen names and bash us.. but you are the ones that were in a bad spot, great contract or not, you got bought. No one at ASA was expecting us to buy you (100% total shock) and frankly, most of us all ****ed off that we bought a dying airline and are praying we dont go down with the rest of you guys.
Third, incase you havent noticed we have one of the better contracts in the industry as well. If you can have that and growth, it makes for a better QOL. Upgrades, more lines, etc. You seem so dead set of not taking anything less that what you had, yet your so blind that your willing to go and sink yourself in the long run for a great short term contract.
Fourth, Skedplus and rainmaker are crap? ***? Have you even looked at this system or are you just listening to the usual winers at xjt that always ***** and moan? When we have humans always issuing pay and schedule changes it was a mess, errors left and right. Rainmaker lets you in real time see how your pay is effected and always lets you query them if you see an error. This has happened once to me the whole time we have had it. Before, queries were flying left and right and it would take a month to fix it because human man power was limited. Our PBS system is great, way better than line bidding, and is one of the best PBS systems in the country! But thats not as good as your tripple dipping schemes and amazing system you guys have. I have 24 days off in may with a 3 day and a 4 days trip and only used one week vacation. Not bad and im pleased with it. You should maybe TALK to actual ASA pilots before badmouthing the one thing we fought for so hard in our last contract.
Get your facts right, Colgan didnt cesase operations only because of their contract, you might want to look at that a bit closer. But you have your almost 4 years seniority, work at the best "just bought" airline with the best contract, you must know everything.
Us ASA guys, we like to bend over and take it by management, donate our checks to the company, not have families or kids to support, dont care about our lives and in general dont care about anything. Yep you NAILED IT! Have fun being a lifer as an FO at the best and highest paid regional.
This is be my last post in this thread with comments such as yours. What has needed to be said has been said. Argue all you like. I just hope you dont sink a good operation and realize just how lucky you guys actually were.
first, you want to keep up with cost of inflation? So thats about a 5% pay raise every year. Have fun with that, I would love to have a pay raise like every year but that is in no way sustainable. You apparently showed up to the party 10 years late with no clue what is going on. This is a gripe everyone in the whole US economy has had to deal with for a while now and no one likes it.
second, didnt Continental pull a lot of flying for you guys? oh and your failed solution to create your own airline to recover the losses...that went well, didnt it? Then continental came and "begged" to have you come back, ...but at significantly lower rates, ones that you were loosing money on the whole time? Thats an AWESOME deal man. no way you guys could have been headed for BK with a contract that was signed at a loss. oh and that whole 100% 50 seat airline concept...thats got a future in it that cant fail either.
ASA/Skywest isnt brainwashing any of us. If you have a brain you can realize the state of the industry and what is needed to succeed. You can think we are conceding all you want and hide behind your screen names and bash us.. but you are the ones that were in a bad spot, great contract or not, you got bought. No one at ASA was expecting us to buy you (100% total shock) and frankly, most of us all ****ed off that we bought a dying airline and are praying we dont go down with the rest of you guys.
Third, incase you havent noticed we have one of the better contracts in the industry as well. If you can have that and growth, it makes for a better QOL. Upgrades, more lines, etc. You seem so dead set of not taking anything less that what you had, yet your so blind that your willing to go and sink yourself in the long run for a great short term contract.
Fourth, Skedplus and rainmaker are crap? ***? Have you even looked at this system or are you just listening to the usual winers at xjt that always ***** and moan? When we have humans always issuing pay and schedule changes it was a mess, errors left and right. Rainmaker lets you in real time see how your pay is effected and always lets you query them if you see an error. This has happened once to me the whole time we have had it. Before, queries were flying left and right and it would take a month to fix it because human man power was limited. Our PBS system is great, way better than line bidding, and is one of the best PBS systems in the country! But thats not as good as your tripple dipping schemes and amazing system you guys have. I have 24 days off in may with a 3 day and a 4 days trip and only used one week vacation. Not bad and im pleased with it. You should maybe TALK to actual ASA pilots before badmouthing the one thing we fought for so hard in our last contract.
Get your facts right, Colgan didnt cesase operations only because of their contract, you might want to look at that a bit closer. But you have your almost 4 years seniority, work at the best "just bought" airline with the best contract, you must know everything.
Us ASA guys, we like to bend over and take it by management, donate our checks to the company, not have families or kids to support, dont care about our lives and in general dont care about anything. Yep you NAILED IT! Have fun being a lifer as an FO at the best and highest paid regional.
This is be my last post in this thread with comments such as yours. What has needed to be said has been said. Argue all you like. I just hope you dont sink a good operation and realize just how lucky you guys actually were.
04-29-2012, 08:52 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 7ER B...whatever that means.
Posts: 3,966
Christ! Is there an adult I can talk to?
Erm...most other white collar jobs in the country get normal cost of living adjustments. What world are you living in? So your solution is to keep your pay flat while each dollar you earn is worth less and less? Try taking an economics class my friend. Our economy doesn't work for ANYONE, whether you are in the 1% or 99%, if people can't buy stuff. Oh, but there will be growth, right?
Continental did. It was a total CF for all involved. I feel like I've been over this. The branded was, at best, a promising experiment and at worst a stop-gap until CAL pulled their head out of their ass, which they eventually did. I suppose you think giving up 1/3 of your fleet to your closest competitor (at the time) is a better business decision? From the quality and content of your post's, I am guessing you were still in high school when that all went down. CAL forced us between a sharp rock and a snarling pit bull. XJT chose to punch the pit bull in the face and spit on it, then walk away while they waited for the sharp rock to get worn down by its own incompetence.
Yes, today, at this moment, the ERJ side is 100% 50 seaters. Will it always be? Who knows. But once again, we are seeing growth on the 50-seat and LESS side (135s anyone? Who saw THAT coming!?) while you guys are losing 50s and 70s. Hmmm...
Who is this "us" you keep referring to? I'm not bashing ASA, I'm bashing YOU personally, Red97Vette. No one else. YOU didn't buy anything. SkyWest, Inc. bought ExpressJet (on their SECOND attempt, mind you) to then merge ExpressJet with ASA. I think we can all agree that SkyWest, Inc. has some of the smartest management in the game here. Must have been SOME reason they wanted us so bad. Twice. Surely it must have been because we are paid too much to be profitable, right?
Between the two of us, I think I know who has a better grasp of the facts. I am still curious though: you can call it whatever you want, but what do YOU think is needed to "succeed"?
Then why aren't you GROWING?! Your contract is good, don't get me wrong, but it ain't great. The ERJ contract is better in most areas, yet the growth and hiring is going to ERJ side rather than the CRJ side. Thoughts on why? To your mind that must seem counter-intuitive. Is it possible that there is more that goes into the cost of flying airplanes than what the pilots make?
Yes, crap. Unmitigated, unequivocally crap. Have I looked at the system?! Been using it for over a year now. CCS was not great, SkedPlus/Rainmaker are worse. Great, I can see my pay in real time. Could do that on our old system, big whoop. Just means I know RIGHT THEN that I have to comment/pay claim something...and wait days to a month. Sounds to me like we're dealing with the same BS you are complaining about (endless comments and queries and waiting a month to get a resolution), so tell me again, why Rainmaker is so great?
Ohhhh PBS. Now you've done it. You've just revealed yourself to be a troll in 'vette clothing! Yeah, you guys fought REAL HARD to GET PBS? Just begged and begged management to go out and get it for you? Is THAT how it went down? Becaaauuusseee that's not the story I've heard from the vast majority of ASA pilots I HAVE talked to. It may interest you to know that some months we have some lines built with 18-20 days off BEFORE vacation. How do you like them apples? In May for example there were 25 lines with 18 days off and 75-85 hours of credit. I'm glad PBS is working out for you and you're as happy as can be. Well done, sir. Line bidding works for us and is generally a better option with our vacation system.
While not really germane to the discussion I feel the need to correct you...again. THREE years plus FOUR years does not equal FOUR years. Again, those pesky facts. Reading comprehension: use it, love it Having been at an airline for a while doesn't mean anyone knows everything, nor do I claim to. But the ability to read, comprehend and think critically sure go a long way!
To address your point, Colgan didn't run in to trouble because of any one particular problem. If you want to point one finger at one cause, I would say it was mismanagement on a colossal level, NOT the pilot contract. ...which REINFORCES my point, so I'm not sure why you brought it up. In case you are not clear, I will say it again: PILOTS DON'T RUIN AIRLINES, MANAGERS DO!!! So stop looking at yourself in the mirror and saying "I am the problem". Sheesh!
No, not that "us" stuff again. You got a mouse in your pocket or something? From my own anecdotal experience, I know that you are in the minority, thank GAWD!!! Slowly but surely, we are winning hearts and minds over there. The XJT bubbas, myself included, are NOT the enemy. We just want whats best for all of us. I'm sorry you have some sort of inferiority complex and don't understand your true value but the fact is, I am unwilling to take a step back in pay or QOL so you can pat yourself on the back and feel like you are doing a good thing for the company. The same company that would fire or furlough your ass the minute it suits them.
Again, no one is trying to sink the ship, not yet. Hell from this comment it sounds like you are itching to cross a picket line that no one else is talking about but you. I hope something just got lost in translation:
I'll say it again: Pilots don't ruin airlines, managers do. No one on the ERJ wants to "sink the ship" or "burn it down" or anything like that. We may have a few vocal goofballs just like ASA does, a great example being...you. But they are by far the minority. Most of us get it: we're in this together and we just want what's fair for EVERYONE. So if that means a pay raise and QOL improvements for our CRJ brothers and sisters while the ERJ side keeps what we have, then DAMMIT, take more money and better QOL and shut up about it already! Because we aren't taking less. That is all. Enjoy your day!
Originally Posted by Red97Vette
Wow.
first, you want to keep up with cost of inflation? So thats about a 5% pay raise every year. Have fun with that, I would love to have a pay raise like every year but that is in no way sustainable. You apparently showed up to the party 10 years late with no clue what is going on. This is a gripe everyone in the whole US economy has had to deal with for a while now and no one likes it.
first, you want to keep up with cost of inflation? So thats about a 5% pay raise every year. Have fun with that, I would love to have a pay raise like every year but that is in no way sustainable. You apparently showed up to the party 10 years late with no clue what is going on. This is a gripe everyone in the whole US economy has had to deal with for a while now and no one likes it.
Originally Posted by Red97Vette
second, didnt Continental pull a lot of flying for you guys? oh and your failed solution to create your own airline to recover the losses...that went well, didnt it? Then continental came and "begged" to have you come back, ...but at significantly lower rates, ones that you were loosing money on the whole time? Thats an AWESOME deal man. no way you guys could have been headed for BK with a contract that was signed at a loss. oh and that whole 100% 50 seat airline concept...thats got a future in it that cant fail either.
Yes, today, at this moment, the ERJ side is 100% 50 seaters. Will it always be? Who knows. But once again, we are seeing growth on the 50-seat and LESS side (135s anyone? Who saw THAT coming!?) while you guys are losing 50s and 70s. Hmmm...
Originally Posted by Red97Vette
ASA/Skywest isnt brainwashing any of us. If you have a brain you can realize the state of the industry and what is needed to succeed. You can think we are conceding all you want and hide behind your screen names and bash us.. but you are the ones that were in a bad spot, great contract or not, you got bought. No one at ASA was expecting us to buy you (100% total shock) and frankly, most of us all ****ed off that we bought a dying airline and are praying we dont go down with the rest of you guys.
Between the two of us, I think I know who has a better grasp of the facts. I am still curious though: you can call it whatever you want, but what do YOU think is needed to "succeed"?
Originally Posted by Red97Vette
Third, incase you havent noticed we have one of the better contracts in the industry as well. If you can have that and growth, it makes for a better QOL. Upgrades, more lines, etc. You seem so dead set of not taking anything less that what you had, yet your so blind that your willing to go and sink yourself in the long run for a great short term contract.
Originally Posted by Red97Vette
Fourth, Skedplus and rainmaker are crap? ***? Have you even looked at this system or are you just listening to the usual winers at xjt that always ***** and moan? When we have humans always issuing pay and schedule changes it was a mess, errors left and right. Rainmaker lets you in real time see how your pay is effected and always lets you query them if you see an error. This has happened once to me the whole time we have had it. Before, queries were flying left and right and it would take a month to fix it because human man power was limited. Our PBS system is great, way better than line bidding, and is one of the best PBS systems in the country! But thats not as good as your tripple dipping schemes and amazing system you guys have. I have 24 days off in may with a 3 day and a 4 days trip and only used one week vacation. Not bad and im pleased with it. You should maybe TALK to actual ASA pilots before badmouthing the one thing we fought for so hard in our last contract.
Ohhhh PBS. Now you've done it. You've just revealed yourself to be a troll in 'vette clothing! Yeah, you guys fought REAL HARD to GET PBS? Just begged and begged management to go out and get it for you? Is THAT how it went down? Becaaauuusseee that's not the story I've heard from the vast majority of ASA pilots I HAVE talked to. It may interest you to know that some months we have some lines built with 18-20 days off BEFORE vacation. How do you like them apples? In May for example there were 25 lines with 18 days off and 75-85 hours of credit. I'm glad PBS is working out for you and you're as happy as can be. Well done, sir. Line bidding works for us and is generally a better option with our vacation system.
Originally Posted by Red97Vette
Get your facts right, Colgan didnt cesase operations only because of their contract, you might want to look at that a bit closer. But you have your almost 4 years seniority, work at the best "just bought" airline with the best contract, you must know everything.
Originally Posted by freezingflyboy
And for the record, I haven't been an "almost 3 year FO" in over 4 years, but good try
Having been at an airline for a while doesn't mean anyone knows everything, nor do I claim to. But the ability to read, comprehend and think critically sure go a long way!To address your point, Colgan didn't run in to trouble because of any one particular problem. If you want to point one finger at one cause, I would say it was mismanagement on a colossal level, NOT the pilot contract. ...which REINFORCES my point, so I'm not sure why you brought it up. In case you are not clear, I will say it again: PILOTS DON'T RUIN AIRLINES, MANAGERS DO!!! So stop looking at yourself in the mirror and saying "I am the problem". Sheesh!
Originally Posted by Red97Vette
Us ASA guys, we like to bend over and take it by management, donate our checks to the company, not have families or kids to support, dont care about our lives and in general dont care about anything. Yep you NAILED IT! Have fun being a lifer as an FO at the best and highest paid regional.
Originally Posted by Red97Vette
This is be my last post in this thread with comments such as yours. What has needed to be said has been said. Argue all you like. I just hope you dont sink a good operation and realize just how lucky you guys actually were.
Originally Posted by Red97Vette
I dont know about you, but im not about to strike, most came to the regional level with expectations that wages will suck til they get to the majors or somewhere else.
04-29-2012, 10:40 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 660
Originally Posted by MoarAlpha
I'm a 2nd, almost 3rd year, FO on the CRJ and im very happy I came to ASA/Xjet.
Originally Posted by freezingflyboy
While not really germane to the discussion I feel the need to correct you...again. THREE years plus FOUR years does not equal FOUR years. Again, those pesky facts. Reading comprehension: use it, love it
Having been at an airline for a while doesn't mean anyone knows everything, nor do I claim to. But the ability to read, comprehend and think critically sure go a long way!
04-29-2012, 12:43 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 7ER B...whatever that means.
Posts: 3,966
Originally Posted by JustAnotherPLT
The "almost 3 year FO" was not directed towards you. Reading comprehension: use it, love it.
Originally Posted by JustAnotherPLT
Best quote yet. Hand them out to freezingflykid and all the other "almost 3 year FO"s. Seems to be a common trend among them.
I think our management has them right where they want them, drinking the Kol-aid.
I think our management has them right where they want them, drinking the Kol-aid.
And I too, <3 boobs.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
JohnnyCochran
Regional
4
09-13-2007 05:57 AM
