Ethiopian 737 MAX 8 crash
03-23-2019, 08:46 AM
#401
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 88
Originally Posted by pangolin
Something doesn’t add up because airlines claim they didn’t know MCAS existed so why would they select 1 or 2 AOA sensors to be connected?
When it was rolled out, MCAS took readings from only one sensor on any given flight, leaving the system vulnerable to a single point of failure. One theory in the Lion Air crash is that MCAS was receiving faulty data from one of the sensors, prompting an unrecoverable nose dive.
In the software update that Boeing says is coming soon, MCAS will be modified to take readings from both sensors. If there is a meaningful disagreement between the readings, MCAS will be disabled.
In the software update that Boeing says is coming soon, MCAS will be modified to take readings from both sensors. If there is a meaningful disagreement between the readings, MCAS will be disabled.
03-23-2019, 08:49 AM
#402
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: UnemploymentJet
Posts: 314
Originally Posted by atpcliff
It WAS incorporated from the start, IF you paid EXTRA for the system to be connected to both of the AOAs. The base package only included one AOA to be connected to the MCAS.
Originally Posted by pangolin
Something doesn’t add up because airlines claim they didn’t know MCAS existed so why would they select 1 or 2 AOA sensors to be connected?
Yeah, not sure about exactly what the "option/s" entail/s...
Edit:
When it was rolled out, MCAS took readings from only one sensor on any given flight, leaving the system vulnerable to a single point of failure. One theory in the Lion Air crash is that MCAS was receiving faulty data from one of the sensors, prompting an unrecoverable nose dive.
In the software update that Boeing says is coming soon, MCAS will be modified to take readings from both sensors. If there is a meaningful disagreement between the readings, MCAS will be disabled.
So, if the software wasn't written yet to incorporate reading from both sensors, then I don't see how it would have been an option...
03-23-2019, 11:14 AM
#403
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,470
Originally Posted by rickair7777
That's a great foundation, but not a substitute for experience.
Ideally you would have both aptitude and experience, but you can't find those candidates anywhere in sufficient quantities. The military pipeline is nowhere near large enough for this.
The pilot shortage will make 121 flying at some bottom feeders much less safe in the near future. And it will transfer to the legacies too, when these "experienced" pilots start to get hired by them.
There is hope though - I talked to a pretty well known aviation career consultant a while ago, and she said that majors are looking into expanding their assessment programs because the talent in the candidate pool is diminishing. That's why United recently added a new module to their Hogan.
03-23-2019, 07:43 PM
#405
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 425
Originally Posted by dera
And experience does not mean aptitude. There are plenty of experienced pilots who really don't belong in an airline cockpit. Those guys would've washed out from a good ab initio program a long time ago.
Ideally you would have both aptitude and experience, but you can't find those candidates anywhere in sufficient quantities. The military pipeline is nowhere near large enough for this.
The pilot shortage will make 121 flying at some bottom feeders much less safe in the near future. And it will transfer to the legacies too, when these "experienced" pilots start to get hired by them.
There is hope though - I talked to a pretty well known aviation career consultant a while ago, and she said that majors are looking into expanding their assessment programs because the talent in the candidate pool is diminishing. That's why United recently added a new module to their Hogan.
Ideally you would have both aptitude and experience, but you can't find those candidates anywhere in sufficient quantities. The military pipeline is nowhere near large enough for this.
The pilot shortage will make 121 flying at some bottom feeders much less safe in the near future. And it will transfer to the legacies too, when these "experienced" pilots start to get hired by them.
There is hope though - I talked to a pretty well known aviation career consultant a while ago, and she said that majors are looking into expanding their assessment programs because the talent in the candidate pool is diminishing. That's why United recently added a new module to their Hogan.
03-23-2019, 10:02 PM
#406
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,470
Originally Posted by rvfanatic
Why rely on the hogan when there are 30+ bays of simulators waiting? I get that sim capacity is maxed out for training, but if UAL is serious about pilot skill then what better way than a 30 min sim session (like UPS) to assess hand flying skills?
03-24-2019, 04:45 AM
#407
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,293
Originally Posted by rvfanatic
Why rely on the hogan when there are 30+ bays of simulators waiting? I get that sim capacity is maxed out for training, but if UAL is serious about pilot skill then what better way than a 30 min sim session (like UPS) to assess hand flying skills?
Originally Posted by dera
If I was hiring, I would skip the Hogan and 4 year degree requirements (which do nothing to qualify you as a good candidate), but there would be a comprehensive sim eval (30-60 mins) and a PILAPT test.
They also get an extensive opportunity to screen your pilot skills during training and probation.
Since they have an adequate pool of good enough pilots, they take the opportunity to filter for other hiring objective, such as "good employee", diversity.
Also at the major level they will always filter for people who can represent their brand to the public, face to face.
03-24-2019, 08:41 AM
#408
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 162
Originally Posted by rvfanatic
Why rely on the hogan when there are 30+ bays of simulators waiting? I get that sim capacity is maxed out for training, but if UAL is serious about pilot skill then what better way than a 30 min sim session (like UPS) to assess hand flying skills?
03-24-2019, 10:37 AM
#409
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by rvfanatic
Why rely on the hogan when there are 30+ bays of simulators waiting? I get that sim capacity is maxed out for training, but if UAL is serious about pilot skill then what better way than a 30 min sim session (like UPS) to assess hand flying skills?
03-24-2019, 11:05 AM
#410
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,470
Originally Posted by sailingfun
Most airlines dropped the requirement because the profiles used quickly become public and those with cash simply go to hired guns and fly that exact type simulator and profile until they have it perfect. Does not mean they can fly, just means they had 10,000 to burn on sim prep.
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