Those Reps I have spoken to see the best way to serve the DAL pilots is within the existing ALPA structure, warts, thorns and all. It's not perfect, needs work, but is still far better than the alternative.

Reference serving the DAL pilots most volunteers view a new untested union going into contract negotiations a huge disservice to the pilot group at best, and an unmitigated disaster at worst. But of course they can always pay some of those extra dues they are saving and buy professional negotiators like APA. I'm sure ALPA will be willing to sell those services


Most volunteers spend countless hours of their free time serving, and are now being possibly told by referendum that the services and time they provide is substandard, but please come and help out at the new union, its really only the leadership? And we know the "new" leadership is going to be any better how?

I think most, if not all will pass and enjoy the free time while all those with better ideas get to put their money where there mouth is.

Where can I find verification of that number?

I was not aware that the NMB has a continuous record of the number of cards turned in on a drive and that we can find that number out.

It will be a great reference to have when enough USAirways East guys retire to watch how the West guys start a drive bring ALPA back on property there.

*Also, even if there are 25% of cards in, those were the "easy" ones. Every percent gets harder and harder to come by exponentially leading up to that magic 25.1%. Who knows.

How many times have you seen the usual ALPA supporters on here and on the DALPA Forum make fun of APA asking for partial restoration? How many times have you seen excuse after excuse (I guess it's reason after reason in your book) why we cannot get large increases in our pay? Don't forget that we are digging out from a 42% pay cut that we took just prior to and during BK. The straight math on that is a 73% increase from that point just to get back to square one (without inflation). I know you know that. But the kinds of increases that this MEC seems to think are appropriate just don't add up EVER to restoration of the buying power Delta pilots enjoyed for decades prior to 2004. I'll elaborate a little more on that below.

Like I've said before. Wanting it is one thing. Actually setting it as your objective, stating it as your objective, and building a plan around that to achieve it is quite another thing. I see no reason for our MEC to keep this objective a secret. So that only leaves me to believe they have given up on restoration and that their actual objective is something well short of that. There's a big difference between telling folks (especially your own pilots) what we're trying to achieve and rhetoric. But it's real convenient to call it rhetoric if you're trying to come up with an excuse for not saying it.

You bring up inflation. With inflation marching on, we simply cannot afford to get traditional type increases. When you're digging out of such a huge hole and have made very little progress after 7 years of digging (and 7 years of inflation)... well that just makes the required increases even larger. It scares me to death that our DALPA negotiating committee is going to open and then settle for something far short of restoration. This MEC's posture and public statements leave me with no other conclusion. C2012 is basically the ball game for many of us and will set the tone for many years to come. We cannot afford to lose! If DALPA will not aggressively seek restoration for us, then I would not hesitate to replace them with someone who will. I'd rather try and fail than to give up and accept defeat from the start. Makes it a little easier to look at yourself in the mirror...

Fly4Hire, I agree with your assessment that most ALPA volunteers will just enjoy the time off and not contribute if DPA were to come in.

I want the best contract in the industry in 2012. To get it, I want to take the most direct path. No BS, no changing horses in midstream, no having to go through Chicago and changing planes to get to my destination. Frontal assault, period. DPA is not that direct path.

Lloyd Hill for DPA Chairman!

I still want to know.

You mean like the services they don't provide to AA? Oh.. but they pay for them right? So... lemme get this straight: DAL decides to tell alpa national to hit the road. That is conservatively 25% of the revenue that the hogs at Herndon need to survive. And... The DPA needs some help with.. oh.. I don't know... contract administration. You mean to tell me that alpa national would not even SELL DPA those services? really?

Wow... really? So why are you so willing to accept so much less from the current "union"?

As an old CO once told me "It takes a lot of attaboys to make up for an awww 5h!t" alpa has an awful lot of aww 5h!t5 to make up for... size don't matter... it is the will of the national union to actually do something productive for it's constituency.

this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^