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We hold the keys to their precious reliability numbers. The company starts to pull some bs, the pilots choose a day in that week and zero flights go out on time and zero come in on time. They will come to the table real quick.
Delay code you ask? SGU
Has it occurred to anyone that maybe the SAPA guys are just not able to deliver because they have no leverage? Originally Posted by IFLYPLANEZBRO
We don't need a union we just have a bunch of pussies in sapa. I listen to their phone calls and they sound like beggars "trying to get something" guess what sapa tell them to **** off. Make some demands and if they go around yall, the pilot group will step up.We hold the keys to their precious reliability numbers. The company starts to pull some bs, the pilots choose a day in that week and zero flights go out on time and zero come in on time. They will come to the table real quick.
Delay code you ask? SGU
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Originally Posted by WesternSkies
Well this is a crude comparison but as long as we are contractors, I wouldn't advise regionals to unionize like I wouldn't advise out sourced china labor unionize. There is plenty of cheaper labor in similar countries nearby. But if it comes to it, mutual destruction will be welcomed.
You can think of ANYONE that isn't in a union as independent contractors. Those people negotiate their one wages and benefits. And they do it on a regular basis to get raises. This isn't an issue about contractors. This is simply having a real say when management wants to implement their next new idea.
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On another note, mainline pilots trolling regional forums is kind of sad.
You have don't have a whole lot of stuff that many regionals used to have and that a few still have (that you should have). Things like higher vacation and sick accrual, 12 min days off, better matching funds, a B find, lower insurance cost sharing, no fault paid fatigue policy, unlimited sick calls with doctors note, unlimited commuter policy, long term disability that pays out until age 65, on the job injury pay bank, no ACARS notification, no check in requirement, no phone liability whatsoever on a trip, reserve rules: automatic release to days off after trip, no back to back ready reserve, no more than 6 ready reserve assignments per month, 4 hours max (4 hours of pay) ready reserve, etc, etc.Originally Posted by Squallrider
Personally I think some people at SkyWest need to take a look around the regional industry and realize we have it pretty good...we have cancellation pay, MDG and a whole lot of stuff that other regionals don't have. Is this place perfect? No. Is the reflow policy that they seem to want to band aid pilot shortage with a total piece of s$#!? Yes. But talking to all my friends I believe this is still one of the better regionals. On another note, mainline pilots trolling regional forums is kind of sad.
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Unions are only as good as the pilot group they represent. So if you think your pilot group would work out just like at other regionals, then you may have a point.Originally Posted by Squallrider
Pretty sure a union drive would fail, people are aware of how that has worked out at other regionals. If there was a regional only union I believe people would jump on board.
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Originally Posted by Bonanzer
Just out of curiosity what is the company doing to cause this discontent? I rarely run into Skywest crews and haven't heard of the actions the company is taking against the pilot group?
It is very rare indeed. They seem to be very tight lipped. It's like they are afraid to say something they aren't supposed to.
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Unions are effective when there is transparency, leverage and unity, none of which are on offer at current unions. A Regionals livelihood is based on flexibility, because if you can't give a partner what they want, they will most certainly get it somewhere else. Think pilot shortage is a problem? Show someone a quick upgrade and they will trip do whatever it takes to get into that position, PSA and Compass aren't having trouble staffing because they got an abundance of new flying and this will continue, it's continouis cycle of flying being moved around from one regional to another.
My point is, get your time and get out if you can, no regional is ever safe.
Originally Posted by Squallrider
Look at the backlog of grievances at union regionals, how are those usually resolved? "Ok we won't do that again..." Look at how corrupt Eagles Union is, charging alcohol by the thousands of dollars. People aren't unionized at Skywest not because they care about 2% due payments (well some do I'm sure) or because they love SAPA, it's because they've seen the ineffectiveness of unions at the regional level, for example, eagle, com air, pinnacle...where were the unions when things went south? A union that represents both mainline and regional cannot in fairness equally support both pilot groups, since the goal of mainline pilots is their QOL and returning their flying or protecting their current flying, which of course has a direct impact on a regional Pilots QOL. Unions are effective when there is transparency, leverage and unity, none of which are on offer at current unions. A Regionals livelihood is based on flexibility, because if you can't give a partner what they want, they will most certainly get it somewhere else. Think pilot shortage is a problem? Show someone a quick upgrade and they will trip do whatever it takes to get into that position, PSA and Compass aren't having trouble staffing because they got an abundance of new flying and this will continue, it's continouis cycle of flying being moved around from one regional to another.
My point is, get your time and get out if you can, no regional is ever safe.
I would imagine that the same may be true of your management if they actually had to deal with a real, transparent, accountable grievance system which had a neutral third party arbitrate the results. If management doesn't want to deal with it, they just drag it out knowing they can't just make it go away.
As for bad union behavior, unfortunately that's a human race issue. Like I said above, the union is only as good as its members. If you vote in unethical humans to lead the union, you may not like their decisions. Which takes us back to the union only being as strong as its members, meaning the pilot group as a whole.
With a union, you get a say of how flexible you want to be with your work rules. Do you want to be EFB reflowable in order to increase flexibility? I don't know. But at least you get a say. And if you decide you do want to be that flexible, you get to negotiate implementation, timeline, the extent of flexibility you want to give, or anything you want in return for it. Right now, you have no recourse.
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Originally Posted by FaceBiter
What about those awesome Mesa and PSA ALPA pilot groups? ELOHEL.
Unfortunately, each MEC makes decisions independently of one another. Which is why I keep Sauk g that a union is only as strong as its members. Do you have a weak pilot group? Then you ma end up with a weak union.
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Not all groups are giving concessions. Some are keeping their good contract (ASA/xjt, AWAC, horizon), and some are even getting improvements (CMT). I put endeavor in a different t class since they were in bankruptcy and dealing with a whole different animal. But they ended up better than what it would've been if they were non-union.Originally Posted by Bonanzer
Alpa is doing a fantastic job at raising the bar at the regionals. PSA, PDT, ENVOY, 9E. I think your frustrations might be a little misguided.
Again, a union is only as good as its members. If you replace the PSA or PDT pilots with the ASA/xjt pilots, we would've voted down concessions.
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IF we had a regional union, with every regional on board, then yes I believe we could tell mainline to pound sand, and they would most likely implement some form of B-scale and take their flying back (probably good for all of us if we ALL get hired), in my opinion that will never happen.
You can't have an effective union without unity, and you will never get that at the regional level unless we are all lifers, because everyone wants to climb over everyone else to get their time and move on. Mainline pilots and their representatives don't care about what happens to a regional pilots QOL, they care about whats happening to their flying which relates to their QOL. We are all in this for ourselves and our families, is that selfish? I don't think so.
Get your time and get out if you can, for this is a continuous downward spiral at the regional level that happens to some of the best regionals aka Comair and Eagle. (The real Eagle...whos brand they created was robbed from them in more ways than one).
Originally Posted by Squallrider
In my opinion that isn't true, I don't see how our pilot group which is a fraction of the regional total would have such a dramatic contribution to the union bite. Its my firm belief that unions are ineffective at the regional level, you have no leverage because one pilot group will now and forever climb over the next one to get more flying and if a regional is not flexible that is exactly what will happen, flying will move to another regional and then another and so forth. IF we had a regional union, with every regional on board, then yes I believe we could tell mainline to pound sand, and they would most likely implement some form of B-scale and take their flying back (probably good for all of us if we ALL get hired), in my opinion that will never happen.
You can't have an effective union without unity, and you will never get that at the regional level unless we are all lifers, because everyone wants to climb over everyone else to get their time and move on. Mainline pilots and their representatives don't care about what happens to a regional pilots QOL, they care about whats happening to their flying which relates to their QOL. We are all in this for ourselves and our families, is that selfish? I don't think so.
Get your time and get out if you can, for this is a continuous downward spiral at the regional level that happens to some of the best regionals aka Comair and Eagle. (The real Eagle...whos brand they created was robbed from them in more ways than one).
I know that at xjt the whipsaw hangs over our heads and is used to leverage us into a worse bargaining environment. I'm sure it's a popular tactic used at all the other regionals. People see all the N #s of regional aircraft that used to belong to other regionals on Skywest paint. I don't see that as a coincidence.