at least we will be a pilot group who didn’t sell out scope, especially for measly gains, if the arbitrator rules in favor of the company

True, but considering how close the last vote was, all it will take is a marginal improvement and the company can get the 51% they need.

However as was stated previously, what was on the table (with the endless industry PSPs, and the forgone 2% traditionally recouped in the signing bonus of the subsequent CBA) amounted to nothing. So even if the arbitration goes less than favorable we didn’t loose anything than what was on the table in 13.

IMO completely different situation compared to when that vote was.

Because pilots are now no longer scared to get furloughed? We had roughly 1800 pilots vote in favor of LOA 13. How many of them were on the furlough chopping block? Perhaps only 1000. The other 800 must have actually believed it was a good deal.

Would you have entertained this deal per-pandemic in 2019? What would it have taken back then?


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It would be nice if they published the “ask” to the association. What’s the harm in letting the association members know the ask? I doubt it changes the companies position at all.

Because folks would be sharing it all over the place. Forums like here, and other social media. Company would easily get an idea of what the ask is before they even meet with ALPA. Sheeeit we can't even stop talking about what would make us vote yes right now on the forum, and that's without seeing the ask.

On another note, I hate this idea/mindset of "hey this is what company wanna give us so let's take what we can get cause it's better than nothing". Smh so when do we say no? When do we actually ask for something substantial in return? And no, what was offered was not substantial so even if we lose arbitration, which I doubt, we lose nothing offered and still atleast keep our dignity of not just giving away stuff all willy nilly.

I don't think anyone, who voted No, thinks the NEA is bad for our growth, the devil is just in the details of LOA 13, And the details were unacceptable.

I share the same sentiment of others here that if we should lose arbitration and the company allowed to operate against our CBA agreement, that decision of the arbitrator will not just set a bad precedent here but on the whole industry and ALPA national should get involved and do something about it, lobby whoever needs to be lobbied if that's what it takes.

that last paragraph is very very true and every one needs to read it twice

If arbitration favors the company so much that they can just violate the contract at will, then the next CBA should do away with arbitration.

We gave away our right to sue in court, if this clear violation is upheld then we need to take our right to sue back. If our clearly written CBA isn't enforceable then it isn't worth anything.