Or maybe someone who thinks that the airlines could be better with salary instead of seniority? Imagine being able to go to another airline and not have to start over at the bottom...

There are issues with it just like the are with any system, but it's interesting to think about

 

Seniority isn't the issue its pay based on longevity thats the issue. Slight difference.

 

I think both are issues.

As pointed out before pay needs to be in line with productivity and our productivity only changes with equipment size. That ultimately drives the acceptable average unit cost.

Wage distribution among the pilot group and longevity pay creates is own sets of problems because it damns an airline to constantly grow or at least to add a sufficient number of bodies at the bottom to keep the average unit cost down. At the end, management doesn't care how the money is distributed but only that the average unit cost are low enough. And that's a function of wage distribution across the pilot group, what we are paid on (credit vs. block) and how many hours they can squeeze out (90+) without increasing staffing and increasing training expenses.

The issue with seniority is that it isn't merit based.

Nobody graduate as a Valedictorian from HighSchool or College because you have spend the most amount of time there. People don't get management positions because they have the most seniority with a company. And that doesn't guarantee good management either. But the point is, it is merit based pretty much anywhere else.

Making captain is great but all it means is that you stuck around long enough for your number to come up. That doesn't make you a bad captain but it also doesn't mean you are a good captain. All it means you stuck around long enough.

I believe that is the primary reason that majors are so much into college degrees', community involvement, leadership etc. Because they are looking for merit based indicators of success than purely seniority based indicators.

Either way, the system will not change but it may explain some of the dynamics in the market place.

 

The above illustrates that you truly don't understand the fundamentals of the industry, much less the airline portion.
But keep trying, you might stumble upon it one day, much like a blind squirrel finds the illusive nut eventually.

 

All true except: "The issue with seniority is that it isn't merit based."

Seniority is a horrible way to rank pilots...the problem is that it's better than any other scheme anyone has ever come with up.

You can't readily measure merit in a line pilot. Tried-and-failed schemes...

Just leave it up to the boss: The brown-nosers gets the upgrade and Christmas off.

On-time or other operational performance: The guy who takes shortcuts (and sacrifices safety margins) gets ahead.

Sim/Training Performance: Everybody who's been around longer than a couple years knows that this can be pretty subjective. It's decent at identifying the bottom 5% who need extra help/attention but a very bad way of ranking competent pilots. Again it would turn into who's buddies with which instructor/evaluator. Or you could assign merit based on online training bulletin scores

Seniority is the fairest system so far in that it is...

1) Entirely predictable, you know where you stand
2) Essentially tamper-proof, in that nobody can change your seniority order on a whim.

It has some clear drawbacks, but everybody going in knows the score, that you're stuck on the escalator. If you want a more dynamic, competitive environment, join the military (a lot of us do...).

 

Feel free to enlighten me. I am happy to learn from the folks in the know.

 

that's exactly it. Most CS guys I've talked to were very accommodating. Some older ladies not so much. but yea, just keep calling.

 

Also very true. And hence I believe it will never change.

It is like democracy - not perfect but better than the alternatives.

But as you point out the military has a different approach that seems to work as well (at least it appears that way). I also understand that this is a somewhat "contrarian" view that goes against mainstream "pay your dues" mentality.

But it may still make sense in thinking true root causes and drivers as we are making a career at a regional or try to position ourselves for the next step. Just waiting in the "escalator" to make it to the majors may not be that fool proof after all.

 

What do you want?
A team (weekday business hours) is more likely to approve something complicated that is mutually beneficial. More difficult to trick.

B Team (sundays and weird hours) defaults to deny everything and strictly adheres to the most basic interpretation of policy. Will do whatever the software tells them. Less likely to know more arcane policy. Hard to get reasonable things approved, but easier to streamroll.

CS is not The Borg, and everyone you talk to is an individual. The above are just anecdotal trends I've noticed. YMMV.

 

DVR shows a large growth in SEA, starting 1 September... Delta E175 base?