Skywest v2.0
01-03-2018 | 08:35 AM
#9891
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Paragraph 8 appears to be a carve out, allowing SAPA to agree to an increase on the first year rate. That's the lawyer view of the language, maybe they'll honor the spirit and not take advantage of the letter.
01-03-2018 | 08:41 AM
#9892
Banned
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As I remember on one of the conference calls this question was asked of TG and he replied that it allowed the company to be "nimble" and quickly react to other airlines first year pay rates.
The company gets what the company wants!
The company gets what the company wants!
01-03-2018 | 08:56 AM
#9893
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2016
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If you are a pilot at Skywest, you are part of the SAPA general membership, and will be part of the vote that is required prior to modifying the pay scales.
If you have any documents that say otherwise, could you post it or point me in the right direction so I can read it myself?
I’ve posted something that specifically states that it is required for a vote by the pilot group to change pay and a response from RJ confirming it’s requirement, so I would be very interested to read otherwise, not just rumor or hearsay.
01-03-2018 | 09:02 AM
#9894
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2016
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Management would have to want to raise first year pay so badly that they would be willing to accept a union on property to do it, because I believe that’s what would follow if they would do something so drastic.
They can get away with some things like working someone into a day off here or there because it affects one person at a time and it doesn’t create big waves. However, rewriting pay scales against policy would be an entire different ballgame. That affects everyone all at once.
01-03-2018 | 09:35 AM
#9895
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,906
Likes: 692
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
It specifically says “vote of the SAPA general membership must take place prior to any changes to pilot hourly pay rates”
If you are a pilot at Skywest, you are part of the SAPA general membership, and will be part of the vote that is required prior to modifying the pay scales.
If you have any documents that say otherwise, could you post it or point me in the right direction so I can read it myself?
I’ve posted something that specifically states that it is required for a vote by the pilot group to change pay and a response from RJ confirming it’s requirement, so I would be very interested to read otherwise, not just rumor or hearsay.
If you are a pilot at Skywest, you are part of the SAPA general membership, and will be part of the vote that is required prior to modifying the pay scales.
If you have any documents that say otherwise, could you post it or point me in the right direction so I can read it myself?
I’ve posted something that specifically states that it is required for a vote by the pilot group to change pay and a response from RJ confirming it’s requirement, so I would be very interested to read otherwise, not just rumor or hearsay.
Paragraph 8 says: " Upon mutual agreement between SAPA and the Company, the First Officer Year 1 pay scales may be adjusted..."
That appears to be a stand-alone provision which allows sapa to do the deal on your behalf, ie an exception (or carve-out) to "it".
RJ s not stupid, if he wanted to ensure the pilots got to vote, he would have stated that in writing. But like I said maybe they'll play nice.
01-03-2018 | 09:47 AM
#9896
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 443
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What is "it"?
Paragraph 8 says: " Upon mutual agreement between SAPA and the Company, the First Officer Year 1 pay scales may be adjusted..."
That appears to be a stand-alone provision which allows sapa to do the deal on your behalf, ie an exception (or carve-out) to "it".
RJ s not stupid, if he wanted to ensure the pilots got to vote, he would have stated that in writing. But like I said maybe they'll play nice.
Paragraph 8 says: " Upon mutual agreement between SAPA and the Company, the First Officer Year 1 pay scales may be adjusted..."
That appears to be a stand-alone provision which allows sapa to do the deal on your behalf, ie an exception (or carve-out) to "it".
RJ s not stupid, if he wanted to ensure the pilots got to vote, he would have stated that in writing. But like I said maybe they'll play nice.
I think you are confusing SAPA (reps) and SAPA general membership...
SAPA bylaws require SAPA general membership to vote for any and all pay changes. SAPA general membership is ALL pilots.
Section 8 allows for the mutual agreement of SAPA and the company to change pay but it doesn’t change the fact that for SAPA to even agree with the company they would first need to put it to a vote of the general membership..because of the bylaws.
And it is all in writing...
01-03-2018 | 09:55 AM
#9897
Banned
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 802
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It's obvious the language was recently changed, I don't see it as being a benefit for the pilot group and it was discussed to help the company.
Why would it have been changed and why doesn't specifically say a full membership vote required if that was the case?
Why would it have been changed and why doesn't specifically say a full membership vote required if that was the case?
01-03-2018 | 09:56 AM
#9898
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,906
Likes: 692
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
“It” was obviously referring to the image I just posted, which is what we have been discussing.
I think you are confusing SAPA (reps) and SAPA general membership...
SAPA bylaws require SAPA general membership to vote for any and all pay changes. SAPA general membership is ALL pilots.
Section 8 allows for the mutual agreement of SAPA and the company to change pay but it doesn’t change the fact that for SAPA to even agree with the company they would first need to put it to a vote of the general membership..because of the bylaws.
And it is all in writing...
I think you are confusing SAPA (reps) and SAPA general membership...
SAPA bylaws require SAPA general membership to vote for any and all pay changes. SAPA general membership is ALL pilots.
Section 8 allows for the mutual agreement of SAPA and the company to change pay but it doesn’t change the fact that for SAPA to even agree with the company they would first need to put it to a vote of the general membership..because of the bylaws.
And it is all in writing...
But the verbiage is a bit loose, does not appear to be bound by the general membership clause. That concerns me because RJ didn't let that language slide by accident. Time will tell. Agree that an end run like that would get them alpa, but they may be OK with that. Over the years both JA and TG have expressed in my presence that in many ways that would be simpler than having to walk a fine line. Keeping in mind that certifying a union does not guarantee an instant windfall of pay and QOL. You start paying dues instantly, but negotiations will take years and probably 2-3 cycles to get to a good point (unless they're really desperate).
01-03-2018 | 10:16 AM
#9899
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 443
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I agree that's the spirit, as most SKW pilots would assume.
But the verbiage is a bit loose, does not appear to be bound by the general membership clause. That concerns me because RJ didn't let that language slide by accident. Time will tell. Agree that an end run like that would get them alpa, but they may be OK with that. Over the years both JA and TG have expressed in my presence that in many ways that would be simpler than having to walk a fine line. Keeping in mind that certifying a union does not guarantee an instant windfall of pay and QOL. You start paying dues instantly, but negotiations will take years and probably 2-3 cycles to get to a good point (unless they're really desperate).
But the verbiage is a bit loose, does not appear to be bound by the general membership clause. That concerns me because RJ didn't let that language slide by accident. Time will tell. Agree that an end run like that would get them alpa, but they may be OK with that. Over the years both JA and TG have expressed in my presence that in many ways that would be simpler than having to walk a fine line. Keeping in mind that certifying a union does not guarantee an instant windfall of pay and QOL. You start paying dues instantly, but negotiations will take years and probably 2-3 cycles to get to a good point (unless they're really desperate).
Most times it may not be a big deal because they don’t care if a contract goes too long but in the current environment, with pay discussions beginning before the ink is even dry on the previous, those who don’t keep up with pay to stay competitive might not fill classes.
So being stuck in years of union negotiations may not be ideal and could cost the company more than they bargain for when they watch other regionals pay increasing while unable change their own.
01-03-2018 | 10:54 AM
#9900
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,906
Likes: 692
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Agreed. I think now would be one of the worst times for the company to let ALPA in however.
Most times it may not be a big deal because they don’t care if a contract goes too long but in the current environment, with pay discussions beginning before the ink is even dry on the previous, those who don’t keep up with pay to stay competitive might not fill classes.
So being stuck in years of union negotiations may not be ideal and could cost the company more than they bargain for when they watch other regionals pay increasing while unable change their own.
Most times it may not be a big deal because they don’t care if a contract goes too long but in the current environment, with pay discussions beginning before the ink is even dry on the previous, those who don’t keep up with pay to stay competitive might not fill classes.
So being stuck in years of union negotiations may not be ideal and could cost the company more than they bargain for when they watch other regionals pay increasing while unable change their own.
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