But that's the whole juggling act of staffing. There's no perfect solution. Having lots of Open Time requires low staffing which will result in some extensions and J/As, which are unpopular with most folks.

I've only been JAd one time and that as an odd situation where I actually overnighted in my own house and then flew one leg at rig pay and flew home a few minutes later. It was gold for me and it was when MDW ran out of deicing fluid last winter. Very bizarre situation and I didn't love it, but I did enjoy the paycheck a month later.

The balancing act of overstaffing and understaffing is not easy (and your post doesn't imply that it is) and in the end someone will feel shorted no matter what happens.

Meanwhile, I just move up slowly and am very curious how the California flying will pan out, especially when Hawaii flying eventually comes online. Being just 21 months in I'm keen to see how those ETOPS captain bids go, with my LAX and OAK Capt. bids at the top of my list. I'm ready to pack pack up and move out west if it happens.

I do think those ETOPS slots will go very junior and may surprise many folks. But I also talked with one guy (who is way senior to me and part of the merger/acquisition situation I'm not part of and very close to upgrade at SWA regardless of anything) who said he's taking first available, no matter what it looks like.

 

I didn’t want this paragraph to be buried in the thread because it’s important. Sure, upgrade time is nice to know - but at a destination carrier it’s nowhere near as important as it was at the regionals. Last I heard nearly 1000 pilots had bypassed upgrade at SWA.

That pretty much says it all.
(Well, it also says reserve is a pretty rough lifestyle here... but aside from that it says it all.)


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All your points are good points, but some perspective is in order. Southwest was pretty much the top job in the mid 2000s due to BK contracts and no hiring anywhere else good. Right now Southwest still one of the best jobs, just not everyone's first choice anymore. Southwest is still right up there in desirability with the legacies and Fedex/UPS. I know a number of people who have been applying for years and would still jump at a chance to get hired here. The last in house job fair was sold out in a few minutes. So the demand to get hired at SWA still exists.

Management has realized that they weren't the only game in town and have done some things to address an area which was a problem, attrition in a pilot's first year. Their measures have probably helped, but the biggest thing reducing first year attrition is likely our 2016 contract.

I think the area where the next issues will be found will be the ETOPS bid groups for FOs. New hires aren't locked into ETOPS training if they choose that as their last choice. It's likely that the bottom of the ETOPS bid groups will be a constant churn of new hires making it difficult for the company to keep up with the training. I don't see the company making the ETOPS flying more attractive, so hopefully the solution will be something like new hires that take an ETOPS lock get a bonus or second year pay for their efforts.

2019 will likely be a very interesting year, I think we will know by summer if the company intends this staffing level to be the "new normal" or if this is just part of the normal ups and downs of finding the right staffing levels. The January vacancy already looks promising with many more CA vaccines than FO.

 

I hope those Captains know vaccines aren't covered on the RP! ;-)

 

"I’ve given up on another fleet type but who knows."

What if the 79 shares a type commonality to the 73, the same way the 75 and 76 did....? I mean we can keep that overhead panel alive another 50 years! Make it a centurion piece of technology!

 

That's fine...greater than 175 seats will also reopen our pay rates for negotiation.

 

Lots going on in this thread.
The manning pinch that the FOs are in right now is temporary, but the solution is going to take a while. SWA doesn’t staff for the peaks. If they intended to keep manning at this level, they would have been upgrading to match the hiring, but that hasn’t happened. Despite what most captains will tell you, they are still getting plenty of premium open time during the busy periods and weekends. Pull an open time awards report for this weekend if you don’t believe me. Paying a bunch of captains time and a half when they could upgrade a couple hundred FOs and thin the reserve ranks of guys sitting and getting paid makes no sense, but there you have it. We are hiring for something. Getting pilots on board is a long term proposition that requires months of recruiting and training. They will continue to stack bodies on the FO side until they pull the trigger on Hawaii and LAX.
There is a push out west for manning in January that coincides with a seasonal shift. When LAX opens in March or whenever they get around to it, it will begin to displace guys from west coast bases and open up a lot of movement in both seats. I certainly hope the advertised 400/500 upgrades does a little to right size the lump in the snake that we have in FO manning right now, but I am not holding my breath. Sounds like hiring is continuing unabated, so we will more than likely replace those 400 FOs with around 300 new hires prior to June, which really doesn’t do much for the open time situation. Seniority is great...when you can use it for something.

As was mentioned above, half the threads on APC are guys measuring their cranks about how great their airline is...for them. A big buffet of QOL, pay, and different flying is a wonderful thing to complain about. SWA is what it is, and coming here thinking it will change is like staying with an abusive spouse. I have a great QOL, some money making flexibility and opportunity still despite the lack of open time in the right seat, and some great work rules.
I don’t mind the occasional JA on my day off and even want them at times since I commute and my kids are older. What I do miss about them is the opportunity that they provide by creating extra flying in the system that is paid at a premium. I would love to see a better way to VOLUNTARILY pick up that flying at double time and some better language for paying double rigs.
Upgrade time is important to some and I get that. It will trend down here soon...it’s just math. With dark skies ahead in the economy, though, it may be a bad time to count on those upgrades being there.

 

This, sorry to back this up. In two years when the economy is doing a "correction" ask someone in the bottom 30% of the FO list at one of two particular legacies how they are feeling. Gotta plan long term and SWA can weather most storms, actually SWA thrives in these events.

 

Excellent post.

 

Dawg,
Ive been at SWA almost 7 years and here is my take on your questions.
1) It is true that on the F/O side we are currently overstaffed and yes most of the open time has been going out at straight pay. However, if you live in domicile you can sit reserve at home and have a high probability of not being used that much. That is how I have been crediting an average of 155 TFP per month all year long. I think this is a temporary situation on the F/O overstaffing -- Hawaii ops coming online, maybe redeye flying, and I suspect some more domestic city pairs to be announced in 2019 as well maybe some increased near-international destinations. Also, according to my CP they are doing 600 Captain upgrades next year so that should smooth out some of the F/O overmanning, even though we are hiring 550 next year -- with ~150 retirements, increased vacation, and an uptick in sick calls you will see a net gain of Captains and net decrease of F/Os next year.

2) Your statement about the $30 per hour differential between SWA and Legacy is not an apples to apples comparison. Anyone that is just looking at the $ differential needs to sit down and talk with real pilots at each of the airlines. Work rules and rigs trump pay rates every day and SWA has good duty rigs that make the trips productive. Have to look at the whole picture. Each airline has their pros and cons. Here is the required one pilot data point for the APC d$ck measuring contest.
Me -- 7 year pay scale F/O, living in domicile, working smart-not hard, in 2018 my total compensation will be $345,000. (This includes the sum of TFP pay, 14.2% B-fund, estimated 10% profits sharing)
You ask what makes HR feel they are competitive -- well they are having no problem getting people to come to interviews and attrition to other airlines is WAY down from the 2015/2016 time frame.
Also, it has been my experience that every military pilot and civilian RJ pilot apples to multiple major carriers and will generally go with the first major airline that hires them. The number of pilots that end up with near simultaneous job offers from 2 or more majors is a small percentage of the pilot pool. Furthermore, a smart pilot looking at the whole picture will also take into account the financial strength of the company and Southwest is not lacking in that arena -- good thing to consider for the next recession that WILL happen at some point.

3) To each their own but SWA still is a very attractive destination for most pilots -- 11 domiciles to choose from and good trip flexibility working for a company that has never furloughed and has the best financials in the industry plus more growth on the horizon.

4) Bottom line: There is not a single major airline where you won't make great money -- Delta, American, United, Southwest, Alaska, JetBlue, FedEx, UPS. Money should be the least of your worries at any of the above airlines. Life is short -- focus on Quality of Life and you can maximize that by picking a domicile to live in and then living within your means, keep your first wife, surround yourself with a group of good friends and family and enjoy life. Cheers!