Originally Posted by Profane Kahuna

No, that's not my beef at all.

Someone said premium for a short callout to a co-terminal was pay protected.

When I said "SWAPA says you have to beat the callout", they got all huffy and told me to wait for the language.

When they posted the language, I said.... it proves MY point is correct, not yours because the company says in that specific example the assignment will be removed (not pay protected) and the pilot will be returned to RAP.

Then they got all huffy again and said "pay protection in that situation is rediculous" thus coming full circle and arguing against themselves about pay protection.

I find it humorous when people are such huge cheer leaders for something that they contort logic to match their beliefs, even when the black and white language contradicts them.

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Originally Posted by Profane Kahuna

No, that's not my beef at all.

Someone said premium for a short callout to a co-terminal was pay protected.

When I said "SWAPA says you have to beat the callout", they got all huffy and told me to wait for the language.

When they posted the language, I said.... it proves MY point is correct, not yours because the company says in that specific example the assignment will be removed (not pay protected) and the pilot will be returned to RAP.

Then they got all huffy again and said "pay protection in that situation is rediculous" thus coming full circle and arguing against themselves about pay protection.

I find it humorous when people are such huge cheer leaders for something that they contort logic to match their beliefs, even when the black and white language contradicts them.

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Originally Posted by Smooth at FL450

and how many times did we say "wait for the language!" Here is the language and nowhere does it say you'll lose the pay. Premium pay for short notice callouts is base on the assignment time. Not your report time. And heavy traffic is now covered under the commuter rules.

a.
Premium pay on the first duty period and paid close-in parking will apply if a Reserve Pilot (including an embedded reserve) is assigned less than:
1) Two (2) hours notification to check-in to the domicile, or
2) Three (3) hours notification to check-in to the co-terminal, or
3) Two (2) hours from RAP start to check-in time to the domicile, or
4) Three (3) hours from RAP start to check-in time to the co-terminal.
In lieu of paid close-in parking, the Pilot may opt for taxi or premium ride share services.
Reimbursements will be in accordance with Section 3.A for reasonable costs (including tips) for each way.
If the Pilot reports after check-in time but within applicable time to report, he will be considered to have reported on time.


A Reserve Pilot who determines he will be unable to check-in in accordance with Section 13.M.1 due to extenuating circumstances (e.g., excessive traffic delays) will notify the Company as soon as possible. If the Company removes the Pilot from the assignment, he will continue his RAP.

Originally Posted by Profane Kahuna

Here is the post where you argued that a reserve on a short call out to a co-terminal was pay protected.

However, the language shows that in the company's example of traffic delays they may remove the pilot from the assignment and put them back in their RAP.

Back in RAP means the premium pay is gone, the assignment pay is gone, etc. In others words.... the pilot WILL lose the pay, despite you claiming that "nowhere does it say you will lose the pay".

So I stand by my point, which is that your claim "nowhere does it say you will lose the pay" is incorrect. A pilot WILL lose the pay in your example.

You can be the first pilot to miss a short callout to a co-terminal. If you get the pay, I'm buying. If you lose the pay, you buy. If you grieve it and win, I'm buying and you donate the proceeds to SWAPA.

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Originally Posted by Smooth at FL450

So again, your beef is with the commuter rules and how that could cost someone premium pay...where a line holder would lose ALL the pay and a reserve would be put back on their RAP and back at 6.0.

If you expect anyone to be premium pay protected when they can't make push, I really have no idea from what planet your argument stems from. But it's not this one.

Originally Posted by waterskisabersw

Importantly, it's NOT making push. The push could be one minute after notification. All you have to do is make your 2 or 3 hour call out. You are pay protected if you make your report time, push be darned.

For all PKs love of language, PK also say that you WILL be removed from your pairing, while the actual TA says "IF the company removes the pilot etc."

There are plenty of flaws with this TA, including in co terminals. This isn't one of them.

Originally Posted by Smooth at FL450

Right. That's what I meant. Crew Scheduling doesn't always care that you push on time as long as you can get the airplane off the gate. On a short notice callout we can push 30 late and still get premium pay as long as we still made the 2 or 3 hour callout.

Thanks for the clarification. I'll bow out from this convo as I think PK just doesn't want to read what I'm writing. i'll let you or anyone else try to explain it in a different way.

Originally Posted by Smooth at FL450

So again, your beef is with the commuter rules and how that could cost someone premium pay...where a line holder would lose ALL the pay and a reserve would be put back on their RAP and back at 6.0.

If you expect anyone to be premium pay protected when they can't make push, I really have no idea from what planet your argument stems from. But it's not this one.

Originally Posted by Profane Kahuna

“the company can put them back on RAP”
“if you get put back on RAP”

Originally Posted by KaraokeMan

CAN & IF =/= WILL
Can you please stop bumping this insanity now?