LuvJockey

Gotta love the irony of it - posting repeatedly on a thread about another company's seniority list integration, and then complaining that somebody else has got quite a chip on their shoulder.

Hey PaxHauler - where did that picture come from????? Cheerleaders at my high school didn't look anything like that.

Carl Spackler

If memory serves, early 2000. They came to a mutual agreement with many improvements for the pilots. THAT'S what I mean by a good relationship with management. Not the totally one-sided relationship we have now.

Yes. See above.

In my opinion, it does. When you lose half, then the people who took it offer to "give" you back a few percentage points, I actually view it as a professional insult. Every day we do our jobs for emergency rates for a highly profitable company, management professionally insults me.

I realize you probably consider my opinions to be emotional. But you shouldn't overlook the facts I've stated also. You frequently do that - especially when the facts show you to be wrong.

Carl

Carl Spackler

You're making this up. I fly Southwest and Delta both on full fare tickets for my business. There is absolutely no question that Southwest employees are happier and have better attitudes. No question. I can literally only remember a time or two when I was treated coldly by a Southwest employee. That happens routinely at my own airline.

Carl

shiznit

Thank you. I appreciate the info.

I didn't know that:
CA TFP was only $124 in 2001
New Hires weren't in the 401k plan
All income wasn't included in the 401k contrib. prior to 2001.
I thought they had a stock option plan from the beginning.


Was there anything the company "wanted" out of the deal, or was it 100% WIN for the pilot group. (I doubt there was ANY givebacks, but I don't know.)

Here's to the "new" SWA, may they get another 10-19% on top of the current deal for being "cooperative" in the merger like NWA/DAL, and may they not have to deal with any AAA/AWA-like issues!

A rising tide lifts ALL boats! (well, except those captained by USAPA)

Carl Spackler

Yikes! Man that is way better than I remembered. Good on ya though SWAPA.

Carl

shiznit

I do not overlook the facts, and I am pleasantly surprised that there was that much work outside of Section 6 talks there. Herb WANTED unions at his company, and the ability to work with and not in contrast to an organized workforce is a testament to his skills.

I don't observe this to be overly emotional in this instance. It's obvious you are very, very angry(and I am too, believe it or not) but its being framed in a business relationship, not an emotional response.

Carl Spackler

I'm not angry at all shiz. Anger serves no purpose at all. I'm quite sad about our circumstances, but I'm not angry at a management team that professionally insults the great pilots of Delta. It's management that should be ashamed of their disrespectful and insulting behavior. Nothing for me to be angry about, just sad to be in the situation and looking for realistic ways to remove us from it.

Carl

skibikegolf

shiznit

At the time of signing it was a win for both the pilots and the company. The giveback was extending the contract opening by two years (9/1/2004 to 9/1/2006).

The true quid-pro-quo was SWAPA's compelling argument that they could save the company 1 billion dollars. This was done by leveraging the huge wages in effect at the time (DAL $259/hr, UAL $254/hr for 320's and 737's) against the actual pay raises granted to SWAPA and the tax benefits of the two new stock option plans.

You are correct, in that there was a stock option plan from 1995, but the deal in 2001-2002 added two additional stock option plans.

Post 2002 with the trainwreck of bankruptcy's, lost DB and DC plans in the industry, I suspect SWA had a small bit of remorse in agreeing to the size of the gains in 2002.

Nonetheless, it is an amazing company that would even meet with a union to discuss a contract that is 3 years from the ammendable date.

tsquare

Yeah, you got me.. hehehehehe But all this really is very amusing. I mean you guys are arguing about merger of 2 airlines that have pretty much the exact same equipment. So what is causing all the angst? I mean, really, all there is to fight about is bases and vacations... I think in 1 seat's case, he has come to the realization that his 1 seat is going to be the right one for the forseeable future, and if he can screw the other guys into taking money instead of a fair seniority deal he can move right into the left seat that THEY bring to the party. There is the irony that is in his posts... Of course to even the most casual observer, that is painfully obvious. And in your case, it is funny that you bring up my post count. I have fun on the forums... BFD..

BlaineFaban

...and there you have it. This sums up the SWA philosophy quite nicely. I play golf with about 15 of them, so I have a pretty good hold on what they think. They don't want the highest rate in the industry, as evidenced by the quote above. That was their chance to actually help the industry bar. Instead, they chose to keep hanging.

Sustainability then came about with some very fortuitous hedging, and then some BK fallout from stupid management at rivals.
Now you throw in a "seniority for sale" sale, and the SWA guys now have an edge on USAPA for underhandedness.

Why WOULDN'T the company talk 3 years early. Lock in less money today, which will be worth even less in 4 years.