We got an AIP!
01-15-2018 | 08:20 AM
#321
UCH Pilot
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 776
Likes: 1
From: 787
Couldnt agree more with your statement!! Its like the DC plans and how everyone has fallin in love with the 14-16% that most have meow. Ask me what that 16% is worth when the market turns again. We forget that this economical boom for the airlines wont last forever. This is a feast or famine industry period and it will always be because its so tied to the small economical ups and downs.
My recommendation is take the contract while you can. Its not worth waiting around.
01-15-2018 | 08:26 AM
#322
UCH Pilot
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 776
Likes: 1
From: 787
I understand the outside opinions and largely agree with them. However this is Spirit with our own set of issues.
If we vote yes we start the clock on negotiating for the next contract to get even more gains. If we vote no, we likely will have to wait 2 years just to get a similar TA. I'm not willing to be out of the cash for another 2 years and push the next contract down the road 2 years or more.
I always vote no on everything. This time I'm voting yes because this is the best deal we can get and a no vote will keep us at this low pay for a very long time.
If we vote yes we start the clock on negotiating for the next contract to get even more gains. If we vote no, we likely will have to wait 2 years just to get a similar TA. I'm not willing to be out of the cash for another 2 years and push the next contract down the road 2 years or more.
I always vote no on everything. This time I'm voting yes because this is the best deal we can get and a no vote will keep us at this low pay for a very long time.
01-15-2018 | 08:43 AM
#323
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,282
Likes: 103
Couldnt agree more with your statement!! Its like the DC plans and how everyone has fallin in love with the 14-16% that most have meow. Ask me what that 16% is worth when the market turns again. We forget that this economical boom for the airlines wont last forever. This is a feast or famine industry period and it will always be because its so tied to the small economical ups and downs.
Would you rather have the money handed over to you/your investment account or simply "promised" to be waiting there for you when you retire?
The entire point of the 16% contribution is that if you make $265k the company pays you an additional $42k tax-free that goes into an account you can invest any way you want. So you think its all going to tank? The put it in a money market. I look at it as extra pay. So my hourly rate is $265 but I'm actually making $307 because that $42 extra dollars per hour is real money. I hope to leave at 60 or earlier just because of the 16% company contribution.
But keep in mind, it doesn't matter if it was extracted via bankruptcy or just concession (AA/CAL/AS) after 9/11, it was the LCC pay rates that the legacies were leveraged DOWN in relation to.
01-15-2018 | 08:46 AM
#324
Banned
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
WTF is wrong with you guys that keep knocking other airlines? You make us look like a bunch of insecure babies. To the one guy’s point - how can we argue that we aren’t discount pilots when we concede the one possible advantage we had to just about everyone else (line bid with transition) for a large % less pay AND PBS. Is it delusional for me to view this in the industry wide regard rather than how it effects me personally? I’m willing to wait a little longer. Why take almost legacy work rules for way less than big 4 pay. If you guys thinking this is good enough by looking at the bullet points still have your green lanyard burn it right now please. At least stop wearing it.
01-15-2018 | 08:58 AM
#325
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Likes: 0
How is it that Spirit pilots don’t have loss of medical insurance? If you are so scared of losing your medical go to Harvey Watt or AOPA and buy a policy, they aren’t that expensive. I had one at the regionals. Company offered LTD is not free you will be paying for it, although probably slightly cheaper. I get why you want it and agree it is extremely important to have but to vote out of fear of losing your medical when you can go out and protect yourself and your family today is extremely short sighted.
The Kicker: FIVE YEAR (5) waiting period from the date of disability until first payment! I say again, it was a FIVE YEAR wait to get the first check. They are banking that you get your medical back. This was the only policy that I found to pay a reasonable percentage of pay and pay until age 65. There are none.
Even if you go that route scope is still wide open. Imo there will be consolidation (read merger) and or partnerships/joint ventures (read codesharing) of ULCC in the not to distant future if it’s not protected against. We have the best scope of them and it still sucks. Frontiers is worse. And obviously WOW and Norwegian have zero. I believe Norwegian already codeshares with EasyJet in Europe. Picture this: Spirit sells a ticket from ATL to BFE Europe. You fly Spirit from ATL to FLL then take Norwegian from FLL to Europe and then easyJet onward. This can happen. Or connecting to WOW in BWI or LAX. Or just codeshare out even the first leg to frontier and have zero Spirit pilots flying that revenue stream. These INTL LCC are only growing and we need to be doing that flying not them.
This wasn’t really much of a risk in 2010 because Spirit was the only ULCC and nobody would dare codeshare with us and expose their pax to the back end of a Spirit plane. The game has changed and that scope is far more important now. Devil is in the details though and we haven’t seen the language just told that we have restrictions on it and strengthened merger protections
01-15-2018 | 09:20 AM
#326
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,599
Likes: 206
From: 787
This is not completely true. I’ve actually looked into this. The best policy I could find as an individual was through Harvey Watt. It was the only policy that paid own occupation until age 65. I don’t remember the premiums exactly but I remember them being so high it was cost prohibitive.
The Kicker: FIVE YEAR (5) waiting period from the date of disability until first payment! I say again, it was a FIVE YEAR wait to get the first check. They are banking that you get your medical back. This was the only policy that I found to pay a reasonable percentage of pay and pay until age 65. There are none.
Even if you go that route scope is still wide open. Imo there will be consolidation (read merger) and or partnerships/joint ventures (read codesharing) of ULCC in the not to distant future if it’s not protected against. We have the best scope of them and it still sucks. Frontiers is worse. And obviously WOW and Norwegian have zero. I believe Norwegian already codeshares with EasyJet in Europe. Picture this: Spirit sells a ticket from ATL to BFE Europe. You fly Spirit from ATL to FLL then take Norwegian from FLL to Europe and then easyJet onward. This can happen. Or connecting to WOW in BWI or LAX. Or just codeshare out even the first leg to frontier and have zero Spirit pilots flying that revenue stream. These INTL LCC are only growing and we need to be doing that flying not them.
This wasn’t really much of a risk in 2010 because Spirit was the only ULCC and nobody would dare codeshare with us and expose their pax to the back end of a Spirit plane. The game has changed and that scope is far more important now. Devil is in the details though and we haven’t seen the language just told that we have restrictions on it and strengthened merger protections
The Kicker: FIVE YEAR (5) waiting period from the date of disability until first payment! I say again, it was a FIVE YEAR wait to get the first check. They are banking that you get your medical back. This was the only policy that I found to pay a reasonable percentage of pay and pay until age 65. There are none.
Even if you go that route scope is still wide open. Imo there will be consolidation (read merger) and or partnerships/joint ventures (read codesharing) of ULCC in the not to distant future if it’s not protected against. We have the best scope of them and it still sucks. Frontiers is worse. And obviously WOW and Norwegian have zero. I believe Norwegian already codeshares with EasyJet in Europe. Picture this: Spirit sells a ticket from ATL to BFE Europe. You fly Spirit from ATL to FLL then take Norwegian from FLL to Europe and then easyJet onward. This can happen. Or connecting to WOW in BWI or LAX. Or just codeshare out even the first leg to frontier and have zero Spirit pilots flying that revenue stream. These INTL LCC are only growing and we need to be doing that flying not them.
This wasn’t really much of a risk in 2010 because Spirit was the only ULCC and nobody would dare codeshare with us and expose their pax to the back end of a Spirit plane. The game has changed and that scope is far more important now. Devil is in the details though and we haven’t seen the language just told that we have restrictions on it and strengthened merger protections
Im here as an outsider trying to provide in biased view points. Sometimes it may come off wrong but I hope when our TA comes out others will come in to try to help me see around the blinders.
Ill hold further opinions until I read it. I have very good freinds at Spirit and I only want what is best for them and their families.
01-15-2018 | 09:35 AM
#327
Banned
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Just a few things to think about.
- On our pilot calls they said if we took PBS more pay would come?
- Look at the percentage of increase our CEO receive for his pay increase?
- If we can't compare our selves to the Legacies how about Alaskan?
- When you make a big investment like buying a car do you take the first deal they bring to you?
When you vote on this contract think about those things and are we still low cost pilot?
- On our pilot calls they said if we took PBS more pay would come?
- Look at the percentage of increase our CEO receive for his pay increase?
- If we can't compare our selves to the Legacies how about Alaskan?
- When you make a big investment like buying a car do you take the first deal they bring to you?
When you vote on this contract think about those things and are we still low cost pilot?
The “first deal they bring to you”
What? Its been 3 years of negotiating.
Jesus what planet do some of you people live on
01-15-2018 | 09:37 AM
#328
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 630
Likes: 0
From: Airbus
Scope is expensive and absolutely necessary it will cost a lot to get and a lot to keep it.
Im here as an outsider trying to provide in biased view points. Sometimes it may come off wrong but I hope when our TA comes out others will come in to try to help me see around the blinders.
Ill hold further opinions until I read it. I have very good freinds at Spirit and I only want what is best for them and their families.
Im here as an outsider trying to provide in biased view points. Sometimes it may come off wrong but I hope when our TA comes out others will come in to try to help me see around the blinders.
Ill hold further opinions until I read it. I have very good freinds at Spirit and I only want what is best for them and their families.
01-15-2018 | 10:04 AM
#329
Banned
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
You know this turd will pass. Don't say some of us didn't say, "We told you so" regarding industry standard and PBS. Pilots are dumb and that hourly increase will be that shiny bright object in front of most of your eyes, blinding you from the rest.
Had one of your captains on the jumpseat last night and all he could talk about was the pay increase. So typical and so sad.
Had one of your captains on the jumpseat last night and all he could talk about was the pay increase. So typical and so sad.
01-15-2018 | 10:10 AM
#330
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,753
Likes: 20
You know this turd will pass. Don't say some of us didn't say, "We told you so" regarding industry standard and PBS. Pilots are dumb and that hourly increase will be that shiny bright object in front of most of your eyes, blinding you from the rest.
Had one of your captains on the jumpseat last night and all he could talk about was the pay increase. So typical and so sad.
Had one of your captains on the jumpseat last night and all he could talk about was the pay increase. So typical and so sad.
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