Originally Posted by Silver02ex

jetBlue and SWA, goes to smaller cities too (depending what your definition of small cities are), and they don't need another airline to do those feed. You missed the point, those flying should be done by mainline pilots, not "Operated by _____ airline" This is why scope is important to me, I don't want a Spirit Airline to be operated by someone else. It doesn't matter if it's "express" flying or codeshare. Last summer, Miami Air operated our flight before the TRO happened. I don't want to see things like that again.

Originally Posted by John Carr

Disagree, you're banking on an "if'?

They were able to grow at substandard rates.

NK management has proven how long they can drag something out. They HEVEN'T proven the intellect or smart business acumen to hand things out much less negotiate them.

And the sad truth is, they'll still get applicants even at the crappy rates, without a hypothetical mid term raiseif.

Good luck to you, don't think the Frontier and JB guys are too impressed.

Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot

Not banking at all because you are right. I will vote assuming nothing will change. Just saying it’s possible. They have been able to grow at substandard rates but the major retirements at the legacies haven’t quite hit and united even still has furloughs coming back. Competition for new hires is going to ramp up. I certainly understand if the Jetblue and frontier guys are not impressed but they don’t see the major major industry standard things we got in this deal that we didn’t have and maybe they already have them.

Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot

Not banking at all because you are right. I will vote assuming nothing will change. Just saying it’s possible.

Originally Posted by falcon2000aj

Yeah, that was my math too.. not sure where the other guy came up with an 8k bonus..????

Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot

To the other airline guys:

No excuses, this does not help pattern bargaining and is an embarrassment.

What we don’t have that you don’t know is good scope. Any and ALL future growth can be codeshared out to Frontier, WoW (old ceo is on the board), Norwegian, etc. you wanted to know who does it cheaper than us; they all do. this AIP reigns that in, details unknown. That is a big deal though.

Also, our current LTD only pays for two years not til 65. Right now I’d get about $7k taxable for two years then- bubkus. This AIP removes that risk from my family immediately not later. Call it fear if you want but our medicals are so fragile.

Retirement is a massive improvement with a DC. We have a 9% match right now and under no circumstances is the company going to ever give me more than $18.5k. Now it’s a percentage of everything we make with no personal contribution required and if our top earners are hitting the combined personal and company contribution ($53k I think) they are getting the overage in cash. Spirits last offer had them keeping the overage for themselves. Did I want industry standard 16% at dos? Yes! Southwest didn’t even get that and the DC was a big reason they voted down their first deal as would I if we weren’t getting it. This is a huge improvement.

Pbs, the majority of the pilots said they were willing to go to pbs to get a deal. Well here it is and many details unknown. The question is, is it enough for pbs because there so far are not many glaringly poor details that we didn’t already know about and some better than expected (we pick the vendor and vacation credit)

So if we vote it down it’s basically for more pay. So I lose $70k from a no vote to passing the next offer (both southwest and Delta waited about a year and they had other major issues for a no vote besides just pay). To make up that $70k lost I have to make $16 more an hour in the next offer just to break even. So I need at least $30/hr more to make it worth it and the whole time I have to carry that scope and LTD risk you guys at other carriers don’t have to shoulder while you wait. Also, while waiting I’m pushing out my next amendable date from 2023 to 2024 just to start this mess again.

So the question is do I think I can get $30/hr more a year from now? Do I want to push out my amendable date another year, and can I handle my massive scope and medical risk in that time and hope it doesn’t bite me.

I don’t think I can get another $30 in a year from these crooks, I don’t trust them not to codeshare, I absolutely don’t want to take the massive medical risk, and I don’t want to push out my amendable date another year.

Do I wish it was better? You're damn right! Do I think the NC got the best deal they could considering the NMB seem to be negotiating with the company? Yes.

Obviously the AIP is just bullet points so we need to see the full text but you can see we got some huge things in this that make waiting for probably minimally more pay difficult. Things that you guys already have at other airlines.

Originally Posted by John Carr

Poop in one hand and put "possible" in the other. THEN, throw in your management. Let me know which one fills faster.



Our (UAL) hiring has proven a trickle compared to DAL as well as AAG as far as bodies ADDED to the list. 2018 doesn't look that impressive for UAL either.



There will ALWAYS been corp/135/regional guys that may not be able to fill out Big6 apps that'll keep coming for a while. We have yet to see the competition "ramp up". We all thought we'd be seeing it NOW at the legacies, we're STILL waiting.....

Take a gander at the AA threads and the new hire makeups as an example.

Originally Posted by PasserOGas

John Carr, you are at UAL? If so can you confirm that you guys do or do not have min daily rig? Our (B6) ALPA documents say you do, just wondering. Some confusion here about it.

Originally Posted by PasserOGas

John Carr, you are at UAL? If so can you confirm that you guys do or do not have min daily rig? Our (B6) ALPA documents say you do, just wondering. Some confusion here about it.