I know positively that both united and Delta do averaging not Hard calendar day

 

We currently fly 18hr 4 days on average and 13.5 hr three days

 

Guess where we'll be with this current mediator?

Sitting on ice making "43%" less than the current AIP is my guess. It has already happened once and I'd be surprised if many would be willing to do it again for 6-12 months for additional 15-30k a year.

Timing is everything and we hold hiring potential leverage, but that's it. Everything else in this current contract is outdated crap and hardly worth the risk.

Look, turning turning down a contract when sitting at or near to the top is one thing. THIS IS NOT THAT THING. Like it or not, if you want legacy pay, and not Alaska legacy pay because they're whining too, go to a legacy. It always has been and always will be.

Passer, I'll give you a 5% chance you'll get to strike in the current climate. But as Jim Carey says, "so your saying I've got a chance".

Best of luck all. I'm waiting to READ the TA because this much speculation is useless.

 

THats not what fedex said to their first contract.

This is hands down the best time in a long time to be negotiating a contract.

Best of luck to all negotiating!

 

Sorry to butt in here, but if I may make a suggestion... I keep seeing the 43% pay raise statistic being mentioned. I think you all are falling for a sleight of hand via the creative application of statistics.

I haven't done the math because I'm not privy to the actual proposed pay rates, but I would suspect that the large increases in the lower end of your scale are artificially inflating the reported pay raise percentage.

If I were you all, the percentage I'd like to see is a comparison between actual payroll per pilot in 2017 versus if this proposal were applied to 2017. I have no knowledge of your actual numbers, but you can bet that your negotiating committee members do. I would guess the sum total of givebacks versus improvements would put your actual raise at far less than 43%.

Just the humble suggestion of an outsider looking in. Carry on.

 

And thats probably why we got significant increases in hourly rate, A DC plan, LTD, SCOPE, RIGS, keeping healthcare (which I believe is one of the best plans in the industry) keeping 4 days off etc.

Look, its a Negotiation, you arent going to get everything you want and you sure as hell arent going to go from the lowest paid to the highest in one cycle.

Im not telling anyone how to vote just pointing out some of the positives among the negatives that some are focusing on.

Ive also heard of some lunatics on the Anti-PBS chat say this contract will cost them money. They are completely out of their minds. The only way that would ever be possible is if they violated the CBA numerous times, every month.

 

As a follow-up...

Believe me, I'm not casting stones. I have every reason to believe my peers will be every bit as susceptible to this kind of statistical optimism as any other pilot group.

I just believe that the best decisions are made when they are based on actual, meaningful information, not someone's twisting of numbers such that the message isn't quite an outright lie, but it isn't really the whole truth, either.

 

Applying just trip rigs and hourly rate increase I would have made $6500 more this month under the terms listed in the aip. That’s roughly 41%.

 

Straight hourly rates, I’m looking at a 53% increase assuming it’s close to what the previous proposal was (AIP rates are within 50 cents of that last proposal).

 

That is one of my main concerns but it would seem our mediator is quite content to focus on the percentage increase in pay rather than what that percentage actually brings us up to. Taking into account my credit hours vs block hours I on average make about 15-20% above my base rate from soft time so a nominal 43% raise doesn't mean much to me when it comes with "efficiencies" of PBS.

Yes I'm quite aware of the LTD and scope issues so save those comments. I've just seen/heard far too many junior Airbii/recently paroled RJ pilots over the past 24 hours drooling over these rates and an additional $8k (if equally divided) to the signing bonus and that's disappointing.