Attrition significantly increasing
01-28-2025 | 07:41 PM
#281
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,226
Likes: 29
From: baller, shot caller
Best bargaining environment and we got the best contract of any of our careers. Not as good as Delta. But neither is FEDEX or UPS. It’s still the Best contract by a long shot of our careers. But it should have been more? Sounds like complaining to me. The TA passed, there was plenty of time to leave, but you didn’t, why? What am I missing?
And since you asked about leaving...
I didn't leave because I was one of the naive dumb@$$es who bought into the bites of the apple nonsense and "building our legacy." I took them at their word for it, and I actually believed that B6 management had honest intentions of merging the two companies. Obviously that ended up being about as far from the truth as one can get.
Definitely learned my lesson!
01-28-2025 | 07:41 PM
#282
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 151
Likes: 21
What I’m saying is 1604 pilots voted yes for a TA that affected what 3300? Pilots on property, many of which left because of said TA, INCLUDING one who brought the TA to the pilot group.
01-28-2025 | 08:13 PM
#283
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 944
Likes: 258
From: A320
When Jetblue reached their AIP a week after ours, basically one upping us, then yes we should have gone back immediately and asked for more.
And since you asked about leaving...
I didn't leave because I was one of the naive dumb@$$es who bought into the bites of the apple nonsense and "building our legacy." I took them at their word for it, and I actually believed that B6 management had honest intentions of merging the two companies. Obviously that ended up being about as far from the truth as one can get.
Definitely learned my lesson!
And since you asked about leaving...
I didn't leave because I was one of the naive dumb@$$es who bought into the bites of the apple nonsense and "building our legacy." I took them at their word for it, and I actually believed that B6 management had honest intentions of merging the two companies. Obviously that ended up being about as far from the truth as one can get.
Definitely learned my lesson!
01-28-2025 | 08:15 PM
#284
That/It/Thang
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 3,500
Likes: 362
It wasn’t nonsense. We were merging with Jetblue, which meant a joint CBA was imminent. The CBA we signed was intended to be a stopgap to put us on better footing until the JCBA was negotiated and completed. That contract was the prize. It was always a risk that the merger would fall through. What wasn’t planned for is the company continuing to hemorrhage cash at an ungodly rate that continues to this day.
01-28-2025 | 08:30 PM
#285
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,226
Likes: 29
From: baller, shot caller
It wasn’t nonsense. We were merging with Jetblue, which meant a joint CBA was imminent. The CBA we signed was intended to be a stopgap to put us on better footing until the JCBA was negotiated and completed. That contract was the prize. It was always a risk that the merger would fall through. What wasn’t planned for is the company continuing to hemorrhage cash at an ungodly rate that continues to this day.
That CBA was the bare minimum that management had to agree to in hopes of keeping the mass exodus at bay, compounded with the dangling of the merger carrot. ALPA played right into it.
Had we asked for more and management said take a hike, there wouldn't have been an airline left to merge with due to the wave of our CAs punching out (which would have been most of us, but two years ago instead of now).
Anyway, it is what it is and we didn't know what we didn't know.
Management giving in so easily to our last TA, which is what happened, should have been a red flag.
Last edited by SSlow; 01-28-2025 at 08:56 PM.
01-28-2025 | 08:57 PM
#286
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 467
Likes: 70
The CBA was never about being a stop gap for a more favorable SLI in the merger, which is what we were led to believe.
That CBA was the bare minimum that management had to agree to in hopes of keeping the mass exodus at bay, compounded with the dangling of the merger carrot. ALPA played right into it.
Had we asked for more and management said take a hike, there wouldn't have been an airline left to merge with due to the wave of our CAs punching out (which would have been most of us, but two years ago instead of now).
That CBA was the bare minimum that management had to agree to in hopes of keeping the mass exodus at bay, compounded with the dangling of the merger carrot. ALPA played right into it.
Had we asked for more and management said take a hike, there wouldn't have been an airline left to merge with due to the wave of our CAs punching out (which would have been most of us, but two years ago instead of now).
01-28-2025 | 09:05 PM
#287
Line holder
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,179
Likes: 257
From: Aircraft & Seat: old & hard
2 years later and people are still complaining about this 69% pass, one guy above saying the minority voted this is 🤔
Meanwhile the company is in Ch11, the proceedings are not going as easily as they hoped, company is still bleeding cash, pilots are bailing left and right for higher ground, and bond holders will soon own the airline outright, their plans unknown.
But sure…let’s act like it’s 2023 and the big concern being more money vs voting it down.
Meanwhile the company is in Ch11, the proceedings are not going as easily as they hoped, company is still bleeding cash, pilots are bailing left and right for higher ground, and bond holders will soon own the airline outright, their plans unknown.
But sure…let’s act like it’s 2023 and the big concern being more money vs voting it down.
In the last 5 elections the president was voted in by (very rough estimate) 20% of the population, 35% of the eligible voters, and %50 of the voters. ( I know, electoral college).
Saying it was a minority that got the win is a total failure of understanding how elections work. I have often wondered why we don't let new hires vote, but we let people in their last year vote. But with half of the new hires leaving within 2 years, it is hard to call them more invested.
01-28-2025 | 09:10 PM
#288
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,226
Likes: 29
From: baller, shot caller
Nothing wrong with reflecting on the past in hopes of learning for the next go around.
01-28-2025 | 09:23 PM
#289
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 467
Likes: 70
Nothing wrong with learning from the past. You are not doing that. You are “learning” from imagination. You can’t insert opinions and biases as fact. You are keeping the answer of “we should have voted no” and now just searching for evidence to support it.
01-28-2025 | 09:59 PM
#290
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,226
Likes: 29
From: baller, shot caller
I’m talking about your certainty that the TA was never about being a stop gap, it was only about stemming attrition, ALPA playing right into “their” hand. They would have given us more, because otherwise Spirit wouldn’t be around. Giving in to our demands being a red flag. This is the stuff that you are imagining to be true. You have no way of knowing these things. And now you’re using the things that you imagined to be true to be the things from which to learn.
Nothing wrong with learning from the past. You are not doing that. You are “learning” from imagination. You can’t insert opinions and biases as fact. You are keeping the answer of “we should have voted no” and now just searching for evidence to support it.
Nothing wrong with learning from the past. You are not doing that. You are “learning” from imagination. You can’t insert opinions and biases as fact. You are keeping the answer of “we should have voted no” and now just searching for evidence to support it.
At the time it didn't seem that bad, and I still voted no because I thought we could have done better, but looking back we definitely got played by Ted and Co.
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