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Old 09-03-2015, 07:28 AM
  #13541  
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Originally Posted by Cruise View Post
I've spoken to the NC about what I consider acceptable, have you? I completed the surveys and actually talked to some of the members as well.
Why talk to a negotiator? Talk to your Status Representative.
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Old 09-03-2015, 07:56 AM
  #13542  
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Originally Posted by Cruise View Post
This is exactly right. I agree our rates should be as high as possible too. However, you take any significant gain immediately versus some ridiculously protracted negotiation. To vote no because our rates aren't industry leading would be silly. Time-value-money! As long as we make significant gains across the board, that's a win for us.
Ask the legacy US Airways guys how well the stopping of their feet worked for them? They've left MILLIONS on the table over the years because they didn't get their way. Dougie Parker and his cronies laughed all the way to the country club with the pilot's money paying their memberships.
Wow, finally someone that gets it!

I ask all of you to talk to your AA, DAL, United new hire brethren and see how great life is. Pay rates can only get one so far. Yeah, you might win a D*#k measuring contest! but that's about it.

The avg airline pilot at above said airlines credits 1.3 hours to every 1.0 hour of block flown. We credit in the 1.8/1.9 hour to every 1.0 hour of block flown.

Don't get me wrong and say I'm pro management and what not. We deserve a hefty raise and it is coming, maybe not the 45% that you all think we should get right away... But more than that over a 5yr contract without losing our work rules. Rome wasn't built in a day and SWA didn't become the highest paid 737 drivers in one TA.

Before we start casting stones at the NC and MEC, let's see what they put on the table. Then vote on what you need. If the highest pay rates in the Universe is what you need, then vote based in that...
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Old 09-03-2015, 09:29 AM
  #13543  
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It would be nice to put money away for retirement above and beyond the 401K. With the current pay scale, in my situation, I am living pay check to pay check. Working for a major airline making huge profits; I would think I would be in a better financial situation.
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Old 09-03-2015, 10:00 AM
  #13544  
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Originally Posted by crumbbuster View Post
Wow, finally someone that gets it!

I ask all of you to talk to your AA, DAL, United new hire brethren and see how great life is. Pay rates can only get one so far. Yeah, you might win a D*#k measuring contest! but that's about it.

The avg airline pilot at above said airlines credits 1.3 hours to every 1.0 hour of block flown. We credit in the 1.8/1.9 hour to every 1.0 hour of block flown.

Don't get me wrong and say I'm pro management and what not. We deserve a hefty raise and it is coming, maybe not the 45% that you all think we should get right away... But more than that over a 5yr contract without losing our work rules. Rome wasn't built in a day and SWA didn't become the highest paid 737 drivers in one TA.

Before we start casting stones at the NC and MEC, let's see what they put on the table. Then vote on what you need. If the highest pay rates in the Universe is what you need, then vote based in that...
Not sure where you're getting your numbers from but I can tell you that the average line pilot here is not making 180%-190% pay every month. The average credit for a September line system wide was about 75hrs and I'd say average block on those lines is about 70hrs. That's 1.07 credit to 1.0 block. Far from the 1.8-1.9 you claim. Yes there are outliers and that goes for other airlines as well so those have to be thrown out. Not everyone can or wants to "work the system". I want to bid the lines I want and be done with it. This month instead of bidding for and having Labor Day weekend and a couple of other days in the month off I bid for a line that had a good transition conflict and picked up over top of it to still make less than what a legacy guy makes on guarantee. I missed out on an important family event because of it. It was my choice yes, but not a choice I should have to make IMO just to get the money I should be getting on my regular line.
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Old 09-03-2015, 10:33 AM
  #13545  
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Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot View Post
Not sure where you're getting your numbers from but I can tell you that the average line pilot here is not making 180%-190% pay every month. The average credit for a September line system wide was about 75hrs and I'd say average block on those lines is about 70hrs. That's 1.07 credit to 1.0 block. Far from the 1.8-1.9 you claim. Yes there are outliers and that goes for other airlines as well so those have to be thrown out. Not everyone can or wants to "work the system". I want to bid the lines I want and be done with it. This month instead of bidding for and having Labor Day weekend and a couple of other days in the month off I bid for a line that had a good transition conflict and picked up over top of it to still make less than what a legacy guy makes on guarantee. I missed out on an important family event because of it. It was my choice yes, but not a choice I should have to make IMO just to get the money I should be getting on my regular line.
So, is the answer to pay us more, much more and get rid of the loopholes? Get rid of the transition conflict and the various ways we get soft time in exchange for higher pay? I'd gladly get rid of all the soft time, the transition conflict, JRM pay, all of that if it meant I was going to fly 72 hours, get paid for 72 hours yet receive the pay or exceed the pay the legacy guys are getting. im not advocating it, just asking the question.
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Old 09-03-2015, 10:36 AM
  #13546  
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Originally Posted by Rainbows View Post
So, is the answer to pay us more, much more and get rid of the loopholes? Get rid of the transition conflict and the various ways we get soft time in exchange for higher pay? I'd gladly get rid of all the soft time, the transition conflict, JRM pay, all of that if it meant I was going to fly 72 hours, get paid for 72 hours yet receive the pay or exceed the pay the legacy guys are getting. im not advocating it, just asking the question.
Then maybe you should just go to one, because hell no that is not how I feel.
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Old 09-03-2015, 11:15 AM
  #13547  
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Originally Posted by Rainbows View Post
So, is the answer to pay us more, much more and get rid of the loopholes? Get rid of the transition conflict and the various ways we get soft time in exchange for higher pay? I'd gladly get rid of all the soft time, the transition conflict, JRM pay, all of that if it meant I was going to fly 72 hours, get paid for 72 hours yet receive the pay or exceed the pay the legacy guys are getting. im not advocating it, just asking the question.
I'm not advocating getting rid of anything. We have work rules others don't and others have work rules we don't. It's a wash. Scope, LTD, pay, and retirement are not even close. Why give up any work rules for those areas that need improvement? We should be getting them regardless. Now if we are talking pay and retirement and scope that are truly the best in the industry I'm sure that work rules come up for sale to some and everything has a price. But to get to where we should be at DOS requires no give on work rules. Period.
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Old 09-03-2015, 11:44 AM
  #13548  
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Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot View Post
I'm not advocating getting rid of anything. We have work rules others don't and others have work rules we don't. It's a wash. Scope, LTD, pay, and retirement are not even close. Why give up any work rules for those areas that need improvement? We should be getting them regardless. Now if we are talking pay and retirement and scope that are truly the best in the industry I'm sure that work rules come up for sale to some and everything has a price. But to get to where we should be at DOS requires no give on work rules. Period.
From everything I am hearing, (legitimate sources) we are not giving up any language and you should expect a nice increase in hourly rates as well as retirement etc. I am hearing we should see a TA relatively soon.

Lets hope its all true (I am hearing we may "give up" the 29 in 7" block language). I know a lot of guys wanted this anyway and if its the case, I applaud our N/C negotiating something for it rather than just give it away so guys here can just pick up and have off 8 days a month, lol
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Old 09-03-2015, 12:34 PM
  #13549  
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Originally Posted by northdakota View Post
Then maybe you should just go to one, because hell no that is not how I feel.
Maybe you should shut up and go back to north dakota. I don't want to give up anything, but if it came down to getting legacy pay/retirements and not having to work the loopholes in our contract OR get a modest pay raise and keep working the angles which would anyone choose. I was asking the question dolt, why have to work the "system", sit on the computer picking up open time and begging schedulers for JRM or move up pay, when we could just fly our schedule, not have to work on our days off and make what the Big 4 guys are making?
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Old 09-03-2015, 01:23 PM
  #13550  
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Originally Posted by JoeyMeatballs View Post
From everything I am hearing, (legitimate sources) we are not giving up any language and you should expect a nice increase in hourly rates as well as retirement etc. I am hearing we should see a TA relatively soon.

Lets hope its all true (I am hearing we may "give up" the 29 in 7" block language). I know a lot of guys wanted this anyway and if its the case, I applaud our N/C negotiating something for it rather than just give it away so guys here can just pick up and have off 8 days a month, lol
I absolutely enjoy this, not even a word from the "legitimate source" but yet we have legitimate leakage.
If your legitimate mole is legit, then it sounds like a descent outcome, but nothing is legit until it's out in the open.
I just hope it's more legit than June 2010 "go to back to work, it looks good", or July 2015 "the ship is sinking".
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