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Old 10-01-2015, 02:48 PM   #14021  
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I've been saying this forever. Is anyone listening?
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Old 10-01-2015, 02:52 PM   #14022  
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Thanks for the clarification. Sounds like it's just as horrible as I originally thought. Unfortunately, I think most of our pilots are unaware of just how awful our LTD policy is until they actually have to use it.
No problem. The pilot group would probably be better served by looking to Harvey Watt and paying our own way on LTD and getting a wage bump. Some of the tax liabilities will be avoided, and we would have a bit more control of the terms. Only problem as pilots we are cheap and will say nope to having pay our own way. Also to anyone out when you return you will pay in arrears your half of the insurance premiums you were unable to pay during that 9 months.

Oh one thing I may be wrong on is the $5000 and $10000 cap. In my case my wage was at 5k a month approximately before taxes so 3k was my payout. Maybe someone who was making more can elaborate on their experience if they like wasting their time reading this stuff! Haha. That is about all I have from my experience with our LTD. Hope this helped.
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Old 10-01-2015, 03:19 PM   #14023  
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No problem. The pilot group would probably be better served by looking to Harvey Watt and paying our own way on LTD and getting a wage bump. Some of the tax liabilities will be avoided, and we would have a bit more control of the terms. Only problem as pilots we are cheap and will say nope to having pay our own way. .
I have a harvey watt policy unfortunately it doesn't cover pre-existing conditions unless you have been on the policy for over a year. Also the one I have doesn't start until year 5 but runs until age 65.
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Old 10-01-2015, 03:21 PM   #14024  
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No problem. The pilot group would probably be better served by looking to Harvey Watt and paying our own way on LTD and getting a wage bump. Some of the tax liabilities will be avoided, and we would have a bit more control of the terms. Only problem as pilots we are cheap and will say nope to having pay our own way. Also to anyone out when you return you will pay in arrears your half of the insurance premiums you were unable to pay during that 9 months.

Oh one thing I may be wrong on is the $5000 and $10000 cap. In my case my wage was at 5k a month approximately before taxes so 3k was my payout. Maybe someone who was making more can elaborate on their experience if they like wasting their time reading this stuff! Haha. That is about all I have from my experience with our LTD. Hope this helped.
I disagree because I've shopped. The best policy I could find that defined disability based on your first class medical and went to age 65 didn't even start paying until year five of the disability. They are banking on you getting your medical back in the first five years. As a hypothetical spirit pilot that lost his medical that would leave a two year gap with no paycheck (years 3 and 4). The premiums were also outrageous.

The reason it needs to be in the contract is because it would be a group policy. That's the only way to get anything affordable. It would probably just like our medical plan in that it's self insured. This is why the good LTD plans are in every airlines' contracts, it's next to impossible to find a decent plan (pays with no/short waiting period, defines disability as not holding a first class, and pays to age 65) on your own.
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Old 10-01-2015, 03:30 PM   #14025  
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I disagree because I've shopped. The best policy I could find that defined disability based on your first class medical and went to age 65 didn't even start paying until year five of the disability. They are banking on you getting your medical back in the first five years. As a hypothetical spirit pilot that lost his medical that would leave a two year gap with no paycheck (years 3 and 4). The premiums were also outrageous.

The reason it needs to be in the contract is because it would be a group policy. That's the only way to get anything affordable. It would probably just like our medical plan in that it's self insured. This is why the good LTD plans are in every airlines' contracts, it's next to impossible to find a decent plan (pays with no/short waiting period, defines disability as not holding a first class, and pays to age 65) on your own.
I was referring to the group looking as a whole not as an individual. I'm with you that individual policies are not as beneficial on the open market and are pricey. To get the group on board here I think would be a stretch so hopefully people take this serious in the next contract. Hell we could all benefit in our twilight years when we lose our medical's for the dreaded snoring/sleep apnea! Probably the best thing the faa did for a pilot if you don't want to drive to 65 and make money while snoring!
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Old 10-01-2015, 04:10 PM   #14026  
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I've been saying this forever. Is anyone listening?
All 20 of us.
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Old 10-01-2015, 04:49 PM   #14027  
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This is not the interpretation I got straight from the R&I committee.

LTD pays for 24 months (after a 90 day waiting period. Hope you have 216 hours in your sick bank) and the only way you can keep getting the benefit payment after 24 months is if you can be defined by Social Security Administration as disabled. There are plenty of situations where you lose your medical but the SSA won't define you as disabled. No medical and bye bye LTD at 24months.

MAX pay is $5000 for FOs and $10000 for CAs if they participate in the buy up. If on the rare chance you can get defined by the SSA as disabled at the 24 month mark to keep getting paid they will reduce your benefit by the amount you get from social security.

Plain and simple: the plan needs to have a higher benefit amount. Qualifying needs to be based on not holding a first class medical. The only way for it to stop paying you is you get your first class back or you turn 65 years old.

Any contract that does not have this I will vote no to. It does not matter what the rest of the contract says if you don't have a medical and cannot work. Young or old you can lose your medical at your next exam without warning. Are we willing to vote for a contract that doesn't insure a multimillion dollar career? I'm not!
As someone that's also had the displeasure of being on LTD for a year. This about sums it up!

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This is about right. In my case though I didn't see the first payment till about the 5 1/2 month mark. At 90 days you are eligible for LTD, but the gathering of info from doctors will push your first payment out some time. They back pay you from the eligibility date. Your first 2 payments have SS tax and federal taken out. After that you are given the option for full payment and be responsible for your own tax payments. Pay is 60% of your monthly. My case as an FO put my pay without tax removed at about $3000.00 a month. Since the company pays our policies it is considered taxable income. The $5000 and $10000 numbers are misleading due to you will receive 60% of that for your pay, hence my payment of $3000.00. Basically plan on a new career with this policy.
Forgot to add the company pays your insurance premium for 9 months, after that you are given the option of cobra or find your own policy. Cobra for me only with our mid-tier plan came in at about $700 a month for health only so keep that in mind also!
This is also very accurate! Although eligible for LTD at 90 days, Principal does their very best to not pay you. It's a never-ending paper-chase with them. They're always looking for ways to not pay you, or reduce the amount they have to pay. It's a joke!
I never saw a nickel from them until the 6 month mark. Then, because I was also eligible for state disability (which we're forced to pay for ourselves), Principal reduced my benefits because of it.
So I had the pleasure of paying the state so Principal could benefit. That was really nice of me...glad I could help that major money-making corporation out in MY TIME OF NEED! Go [email protected]&$ yourself, Principal.
That's outstanding and a perfect example of how jacked up our insurance industry in America is.
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Old 10-01-2015, 06:24 PM   #14028  
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I've been saying this forever. Is anyone listening?
I've been trying to spread the word online but most of the guys I fly with are either unaware of how awful our LTD plan is, or seem to think it's not a very big deal because they probably won't have to use it. I think there might be enough guys interested if there was an organized effort to come up with a superior LTD policy funded by the pilot group. Education is critical here. Right now, the most extensive information regarding our LTD policy can be found on this forum. Even if you're motivated enough to hound HR, it's hard to find any details regarding our policy other than the buy up option. I think most guys here are blissfully ignorant of just how awful our policy is. It would be nice to know what improvements the NC is looking to make. One way or another, we need to have a better LTD plan than this worthless piece of garbage we have now.
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Old 10-01-2015, 06:54 PM   #14029  
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I was referring to the group looking as a whole not as an individual. I'm with you that individual policies are not as beneficial on the open market and are pricey. To get the group on board here I think would be a stretch so hopefully people take this serious in the next contract. Hell we could all benefit in our twilight years when we lose our medical's for the dreaded snoring/sleep apnea! Probably the best thing the faa did for a pilot if you don't want to drive to 65 and make money while snoring!
Twilight years? I'm 33 and almost lost my medical last year.
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Old 10-01-2015, 08:04 PM   #14030  
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Yep, I'm older than that but no where near my "twilight years". When I talked to guys I was flying with about LTD they usually didn't care, no one cares about it until it's too late. As bad as our ltd is it's better than what I had at my last company which is a big reason why I came here. What is sad however is that the regional I flew at was far better than this fiasco of LTD I have been dealing with. Principle is also a POS to deal with, good luck getting a hold of anyone ever, takes about a week to call you back. Then there is always the never ending paper chase they have you go on, once you give them that they want something else. So it's never just the waiting period of 3 months then they start paying as someone else said they drag their feet as much as possible. Which is really helpful after you have had basically no money coming in for months.
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