captscott26

The problem is, go interview any pilot from any airline in the US and you will get the same exact story.....management sucks, pay sucks, work rules suck, we cant get a good contract, contract violations, etc, etc. Its everywhere dude. I hear what you are saying and dont completely disagree with you, but what are we to do. Should we leave our seniority number here just to go join the bottom of the list at another company and be greeted with the same problems we just left? One thing I have learned is the grass isn't always greener on the other side. As Spirit pilots we are much better off fighting to fix the problems here than running off somewhere else to join their fight. We are a small airline, with many problems, and a HUGE potential for growth. Everyone here knows what Spirit is.....I guess we all just hope it lives up to what it can become.

Sailor

Well, I have to say that I don't really know much about those cases that you are talking about, and the DO's comments about fuel. But if true it would not be the first wrong thing from management to employees in our Industry. Spirit is not exempt.

After 6 years, lots of broken promises, tons of problems between pilots, dispatchers, union and management I left a major commuter outfit to join Spirit. Today a year and 5 months later, 6 months on furlough and recalled back to work, I stand by my decision in coming here.

Just like CA Scott said, the grass is Not always greener on the other side, our problems here at Spirit are not unfixable, we just need to work a little harder in fixing them.

I rather think about my future career here, than think about the future at the bottom of another company's list, with new problems.

Cheers.

Grounded320

Your flat out wrong about your evaluation of Spirit vs the rest of the industry. I have first hand experience to dispute your assumption. Led by Mr Olechowski and Mr. Puyear, two of the most classless individuals in the industry, are the major players who helped create the wonderful " pilot friendly" climate. The levels of personal destruction and intimidation tactics used by these individuals are second to no one in the industry. Like I stated in an earlier example no airline calls pilots in on days off for "notices of investigation" more often then spirit, NO ONE! Your right things are fixable, but not with the current group of clowns running the show. Your career will always be hanging on a thread. When that thread breaks you will be counting on a very weak union to save your tail. Your right things are not always greener on the other side, going to the bottom of a list, being on reserve ect. However, there is a different culture at a major. I was never questioned about calling in sick, nor did I personally ever get any grief for making a decision based on safety. So if you really want to make this work I suggest you band together shut up the Tureks and bielaska's of Spirit, get rid of the management cancers (olechowski), and the weak union guys in bed with company. The great majority of Spirit pilots are great guys, but you have some bad seeds taking this small airline down. I can't release the good stuff yet, but I have yet to see this situation occur at a major or regional I have been employed at. Here is just one example of the type of people YOU are counting on. This is a copy of an email sent out by a spirit captain.

"Here are some other emails I sent to the MEC and never received a response. You would think a MEC as clean as the VIRGIN MARRY would respond.....???? How can they respond when they are GUILTY as SIN....!!!

Lets get this straight, a Captain Rep turned in one of our pilots to the FAA and we are going to sit back and look the other way.....??? What if they turned you in....what would you think???

You guys need to step up and ask the tough questions................Did you turn the FO into the FAA...YES or NO???
If you discover the Captain RAT turned in the FO you should think about recalling him. The ball is in your court.


Thanks,

XXXXXXXX
Captain/check airman"

Sailor

Grounded320

You leave me speechless, really, I don't know wether you have personal agenda, vendetta, or just plain sore feelings about your time at NK with some individuals or management altogether.

I can not change any of it, nor can I put my hands on fire for any of the people you mention here. But like I said before, If all true, it is bad on our company and pilot group. But I am sure that your opinion and research does not reflect every pilot here, or management procedures in general.

This may be something that will have legal consequences. I am not one to talk bad about people in this form, so I have to give you the wining chips on the subject, and wish you best of luck on the project.

Colgan pilots, I do not have any comments about that.

Cheers

PAN PAN PAN

I find this a very interesting topic and the conversations that has taken place here. I also find it ironic that a pilot would wait until he or she has left a company to make acusations about the a former employer. I would think that you as a professional pilot would have the respect to address these issues while you were working at this company, especially if it pertains to safety of flight issues. It is your duty and obligation as a professional pilot to seek corrective actions to these items that your claiming.

I would tread cautiously with the accounts that will be published in your book it could be interpreted in a legal standpoint, as you yourself acted in a careless and reckless manner and allowed this condition to continue without reporting it. Perhaps you were intimidated by management not to report this under fear of retaliation against the company and ultimately resulting in termination I don't know.

Every airline has their problems and it is up to the pilot group to correct them as best we can..........

Grounded320

Hey sailor. No agenda at all, and if you read my posts I specifically mentioned there were a lot of good people at Spirit, I also cited some of the bad apples too. I decided to walk away from the industry on my own terms so I have nothing to gain. As stated earlier all of my book sales will be going to help pilots and not my pocket. I am now in medical school and I am very happy, but I have to admit I do miss flying. The bottom line was that I worked very hard like many others in this industry. I know how hard the road is, in fact at my first regional job I slept in my truck for a short time because I could not afford to live on training pay. I also know that a lot of good people are afraid to speak up, do what's right out of fear of retaliation by management and fellow pilots. Many have families to support and I understand its not easy to speak up, fighting a big machine alone is not easy and often results in an unfortunate result. Now that I am out I can voice my opinion without the fear of a retaliatory response on a check ride (well all know that happens),an NOI from management, or even termination. I care about what happens to this industry, but I have no empathy for those who have made a living at destroying the moral of pilots, especially pilots turning on pilots. I think more public awareness will help. Look at the focus already being generated regarding the Colgan crash. Its not much yet, but its a start. Do I have motivation, well maybe you will come to my office to get your medical in say... 7 years. You seem like a good guy sailor and I wish you the best of luck.

Grounded320

PanPan A bitter response.... Let me tell you I did speak up and I was not a fan of management. Unfortunately when I ended up at the alter, I was often standing alone.... some people just can't afford to stand up. I never operated a flight I did not believe was safe and I didn't care if the company wanted to hang me or not. The facts will show that spirit is in a league of its own. Yes, american, delta, united all have their issues, but what's going on at spirit is not happening there. If you think this is the case, well you better become better informed. As for the legal issues they are being dealt with very carefully. I take it your a spirit guy, you can't honestly tell me what I have cited so far is nothing but truth. I hope that public focus on your DO and others will put pressure to change the corporate culture and make your airline a really good place to work.

Sailor

I don't know about getting my medical at you office, kind of like my Dr. and it's very close to my house. But who knows, the future is the future and will never know.

Also, you or someone you know may catch a ride on one of my flights, and we'll get to chat about all this, or maybe not. Who knows.

I really hope all that you are doing is in good faith and with a constructive end and not a destructive idea.

Cheers

skybolt

grounded, you may have covered your bases for you book, but I somehow doubt that you have covered them on this forum. Ole can't help but see where you have slandered him. BTW, my guess is that your posts are simple publicity stunts. If you wanted to help airline pilots, you would not be trying to undermine the ones working for
Spirit. Agree with their tactics or not, a lot of pilots (from both sides of the spirit political spectrum) have worked/are working very hard to improve our lot in life. Attracting attention for your personal gain is about as unethical as anything you claim to stand against.

If you really want to prove your balls, I will be happy to arrange a face to face with Ole.

For those of you watching this family feud from the outside, our DO is a seniority list pilot who was first hired as the DTW base CP by ownership/management three generations back (IOW's he was hired by the very people that now side with his detractors). He has fired exactly three pilots in four years. Not quite the heinous record grounded presents. It also bears mentioning that Spirit has survived these last twelve months, something that ten or so other airlines can not claim. I have problems with the way ownership views people in general, but taking out ones venom on one particular pilot/manager is simply out of line.

Grounded320

I am sorry you feel that way. There is nothing slanderous about my comments, I have a legal right to my opinions. I am familiar with Ole, and he is not the type to confront an issue without his "big guns" fighting for him. I would equate him to school boy who would run his mouth then hide behind the teacher. How come you did not stick up for Puyear, perhaps another bad apple. Yes your DO history is correct, but he has forgotten where he came from when he was hired at spirit in 99. Don't trust my words of wisdom, why don't you just poll all the pilots threatened by Ole and his shut up and do it my way or else leadership. Why don't you pull up previous mec emails addressing the number of NOI's, sick call intimidation ect.. where was ole then????? So don't take my word for it, try the facts. As for his firing statistic, perhaps true, would have been significantly higher if he had not been restrained by labor laws. You fail to understand that this is not personal for me. I would like to see the majority of pilots at spirit be successful, but the I see the Kool Aid never stops flowing. Best of luck to you as well.