Originally Posted by ManFlex

Do you recognize that giving rank and file access to all financial data also gives our management access to all of our union's financial data? Shareholders are not entitled to access to proprietary financial information of a company, so why should all union membership be shown all the inner financial workings of their union? That's why we can choose our representatives via elections and we should trust them to be custodians of all of our union's resources.

Your charges of impropriety will never be quelled no matter what information you have access to. Let's be real about that.

Originally Posted by A320Flyer

Incorrect. Lame excuse. We're not talking about the Strike Preparedness Committee Fund, or funds dedicated to negotiations, attorneys, etc. (mostly supported by ALPA National). That should clearly be kept in-house. By the way, when it comes to ALPA money, the company knows exactly how much money is being deducted from every single pilot and being funneled to the union. THEY also have all the ALPA trip drop information and cost (they authorize it!!). We're talking here about day-to-day operating budget. How much did it cost to set up quarterly meetings at the venues. How much is dedicated to send reps to ALPA conventions, on a yearly or quarterly basis, etc. This is no big super top-secret thing that the company cares about. But us, dues-payers do.
You see, at my previous carrier, we could see the budget. So much for the Membership Committee (to take new hires out and dine). So much for Safety Committee projects. So much for the HIMS Committee. Expenses incurred for meetings, etc. What's the big deal? Here, we have no access to basic financial information. Wrong on all levels. That's as real as it gets...

Originally Posted by A320Flyer

Agreed. Having done ALPA volunteer work here and other airlines, I can attest that it is certainly tireless work and that reps should be allowed the opportunity to drop trips to work for the pilot group as necessary (including to attend certain "appreciation" social functions). Absolutely no issue at all with that! HOWEVER, it is also vitally important that this information be made available to all dues paying members. We do have a SPA ALPA website. It should be published periodically there. Who's dropping, how much and for what. "September: Rep XYZ, 22:30 4-day, attended ALPA Jumpseat Chairman's meetings in Washington D.C." This is one of the duties of the MEC Secretary-Treasurer. Keeping track of the drops, authorizing FPL payments and keeping the books open to the membership.
Now, let us understand why so much suspicion about "closed books" ensues amongst the ranks. Do you remember a couple of years ago a certain committee chairman, while out on a long-term medical (inactive status) doing ALPA volunteer work at home, and receiving full FPL month after month? If you recall, this scheme was only uncovered because of one pilot, with big cojones, personally went to Herndon to see the books. Why was this happening? Is this happening now? We don't know. Transparency leads to accountability which leads to cohesiveness and an effective functioning organization.
Trust, but verify. Tell me, am I wrong?

Originally Posted by ManFlex

So what do you hope to gain with access to this information? Are you the arbiter on how much to spend on each of those various line items you list? I don't care if this information is released or not. I think the vast majority of pilots feel this way. And I feel badly for our leadership: don't release all of this banal financial data and they cry 'transparency!' Release it and you guys will latch on to some tidbit and cry 'waste or abuse!'

Originally Posted by ManFlex

So what do you hope to gain with access to this information? Are you the arbiter on how much to spend on each of those various line items you list? I don't care if this information is released or not. I think the vast majority of pilots feel this way. And I feel badly for our leadership: don't release all of this banal financial data and they cry 'transparency!' Release it and you guys will latch on to some tidbit and cry 'waste or abuse!'

Originally Posted by A320Flyer

Based on what scientific assessment or poll do you "think" Spirit pilots don't care? Banal financial data? Your posts are starting to look ridiculous...
Here's an example of financial statements issued by ALPA and the vast majority of ALPA MEC's... Log in if you care...

https://crewroom.alpa.org/DesktopMod...2056&Tabid=251

I can give you copies of my old airline and also of those where some of my friends work for. If they're so "banal", why are they published? Facts are facts. You can't win this one, sorry...

Originally Posted by ManFlex

Do you recognize that giving rank and file access to all financial data also gives our management access to all of our union's financial data? Shareholders are not entitled to access to proprietary financial information of a company, so why should all union membership be shown all the inner financial workings of their union? That's why we can choose our representatives via elections and we should trust them to be custodians of all of our union's resources.

Your charges of impropriety will never be quelled no matter what information you have access to. Let's be real about that.

Originally Posted by skybolt

Directly from the ALPA Admin Manual.

3.​The MEC Secretary/Treasurer shall report at least quarterly to the members of the airline as to the status of the MEC Account including SMRA.

It's been six years since I studied the C&BL's, and the above reference could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Also, I believe that Federal Law requires that unions always have open financials to their membership. I'll cut the SPA MEC some slack on this as it is actually difficult to accomplish, as most financials are in the form of "accountant speak", and it takes an accountant to decipher them. FPL reports are easier and in my experience we have had fairly normal FPL expenditures. As for me, I'd like to see more FPL go toward giving committee vols time to do their jobs and less go toward the ever increasing arbitration process. But that's just my overall philosophy of doing the members business. When the company realizes that our only way of fighting them is in court, they force everything to court.

BTW, I agree on having volunteers on full time FPL. We are certainly big enough to have at least the MEC Chair on full time FPL.

Originally Posted by Cruise

Also agree the likelihood of someone crying 'waste or abuse' is very likely to occur, regardless of how much or little is being spent.

Originally Posted by ManFlex

Glad we can agree on that.