+1

(filler)

 

Sweet, more blind voters on a TA we don't have! Hope to see you at the pretend roadshows!

 

It's not blind. The no vote response was about the hypothetical TA being comparible to current Jetblue. I don't need to go to a road show to know that's a crap deal worthy of a no vote. I'm not being blind or saying the TA will be that I'm simply responding to another post.

Btw I think you made a road show comment a bunch of pages back about me being a chest thumper and how I wouldn't go to road shows etc. FYI I get every Union email, I speak to my LEC reps regularly, I communicate with multiple committees including the negotiating committee when necessary, I've been to every LEC meeting at this airline and my last as long as I wasn't already working, I even moved my work schedule to be available to attended a LEC meeting I thought critical, I vote on resolutions when presented, I voted an educated no to the distance learning LOA, I complete every servey and I do plan on attending the road show. I'd say I'm informed.

Anything close to Jetblue is insulting to this group and I don't need a road show to tell me it's bad. Voting yes after listening to a sales job on said hypothetical offer is the definition of blind.

But like you said we don't know what will be offered so this doesn't matter.

 

That's all 'cool and stuff,' but I have a couple simple question for you.

1) How can you sell anything but industry standard (plus 300 BP) with most of our work rules to a judge in binding arbitration?
2) Are you willing to lose over 100k in pay not including 401k, ltd, and std if this thing drag into a 2 year ordeal because you didn't get Delta pay?

Just asking

 

I have a simple question;

Can we fornicating please wait for a fornicating TA before we all fornicating jump to fornicating fornicate conclusions? I'm so fornicating tired of listening to all these negative-fornicating-Nancy fornicating experts issuing their fornicating negative views on a fornicating agreement that hasn't even fornicating seen the gosh-darn fornicating light of day yet.

When the fornicating TA is announced and it turns up to be a poopy poop turd, then we can flush the stinky poopy thing down the toilet and start again.

Until then, everyone please chill the fornicate down and relax.

(Above post edited to avoid the Ban Hammer. Big boy adult wording have been replaced with happy time warm fuzzes to keep everyone feeling groovy and stuff.)

 

Who said anything about binding arbitration? At no point in this process is arbitration going to happen unless both us and the company agree to it. Not going to happen.

Today's standard is not really the standard because two managements have already shown they are willing to pay more (southwest and delta). United is also going to prove that here very shortly. I think AA has a pairity clause with the average of delta and Ual so that could actually bring them up a little here shortly if United ratifies. United is going to have a parity clause with delta in their TA as well so when delta finically ratifies in the next year if say it's going to bring United up again. That triggers another bump at American due to the average going up once again. You can see that this "industry standard" is about to change very quickly for better. That doesn't even account for the wildcard of JetBlue having something happen in the not so distant future or southwest or virgin. Locking into pairity with an airline that is very middle of the pack and also negotiating their own raises in environment that is quickly moving upward by large numbers would prove short sighted and foolish.

No I'm not willing to lose 100k while we wait for a better deal and I don't think it would take that long either because managements attrition problem would likely get to bad for them to drag it it for any length after a failed initial ratification. And if they are many of us are not willing to sit around and wait. We will go get the money somewhere else. Not everyone that try's will be able to leave but a lot of us are going to at least lace up our walking shoes. So either way it's unlikely that we would lose $100k in pay by sending back something as insulting as jetblues current rates. Agreeing to that will look increadibly irresponsible in a years time.

 

Very true. I just wish that our illustrious MEC wouldn't give us a "poopy thing" to vote on. It doesn't help our cause when we get a crappy TA and then have to vote it down. It just prolongs the whole process. I guess we'll have to wait and see, but past history isn't on our side.

 

FYI- JetBlue and Virgin are nowhere near a TA, it will be 2-3 years minimum before they see one. Feel free to email JB alpa reps to see how their negotiations are going...

Hopefully the economy and bargaining environment will be just as lucrative as it is now for us and them..

 

I disagree, I believe it's a process that will have to happen to get what we deserve. It's one thing for the NC or MEC to tell them our value, but I don't believe this management, or any management for that matter, will give it to us until the whole group votes it down. Just my opinion.

I do agree it won't take years, inability to attract pilots will stunt their growth. It's already happening. The last job fair didn't sell out, and had lots of low time candidates. Add in some increased attrition and they won't have a choice.

 

This is all good news for us! More of this and crickets when cs calls for help during the next IROP.