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Spirit of NKS, Part II

Old 03-30-2016, 05:41 AM
  #5001  
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Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot View Post
A release could happen just not soon.

Our leverage is that we are not easily replaceable unskilled labor like the flight attendants and it costs a lot more to hire and train one of us that leaves while also trying to recruit and train pilots already planned for the growth.

They will always have girls beating down the door to be flight attendants that then quit within a year after they figure out what it actually pays and what the job is. No problem because they didn't lose money on that person and there is a new one waiting to take her place tomorrow.

They don't have that luxury with us and our leverage grows as time goes on. Also, if our negotiators do their job and not settle for something lack luster it would be pretty hard for the national mediation board not side with us eventually if the company is just simply not willing to meet our ask. The industry supports it and spirit can afford to pay it. They just don't want to until they have to. As long as guys aren't leaving, guys are showing up to class, we keep doing everyone's job, we keep covering uncovered trips on our days off, and the company has not yet had any pressure from the NMB to deal, then yes you're right our leverage is minimal.

We have control over 3/4 of those factors.
I agree with all of those being leverage that we POTENTIALLY possess. However, until they materialize, they are moot. Despite the rumors of people leaving that exist on this board, until the number of people leaving is much greater than the number of people that can be trained, attrition is not a factor. Unfortunately, there will always be pilots applying. Maybe not as many as now, but they are out there. Next, just doing our job and not picking up open time is HUGE leverage, but again, pilots talk tough but there simply aren't enough that will actually do it to make a difference. The company knows that pilots will line up for extra money to cover flying. I've flown with some "hardliners" that still help out the company because they think that getting paid 200% somehow hurts the company. Canceling flights hurt the company. Paying a grossly underpaid pilot what he should be paid anyway is a win for them. Selfishness, greed and apathy will nullify our leverage. A mediator will continue mediation as long as both parties are negotiating in good faith. Unfortunately, the deck is stacked against labor. Any small amount of progress will keep it going. Even no progress as long as talks are occurring can be viewed as not an impasse. Also, if we are the side that is making unrealistic demands according to the mediator, things could get very drawn out. I don't believe that a mediator would ever entertain that United, Delta or American are our peers. So, their recent gains mean very little.
Sorry for the long post.
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Old 03-30-2016, 06:29 AM
  #5002  
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Every Airbus operator in this country is our peer. Every single one is negotiating except for Frontier who is on a bankruptcy contract, and Ual and AA that both have 3 years left on their contracts. Those are the only current benchmarks available.
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Old 03-30-2016, 07:22 AM
  #5003  
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If DL gets their raise a 5 year CA on the 320 will be at $277 hr!!!!
Makes our $136 rate a double slap in the face!!
Where is our NC? Why don't you guys tell us what's the plan here? What are you asking for?
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Old 03-30-2016, 07:38 AM
  #5004  
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Originally Posted by Gunga Din View Post
If DL gets their raise a 5 year CA on the 320 will be at $277 hr!!!!
Makes our $136 rate a double slap in the face!!
Where is our NC? Why don't you guys tell us what's the plan here? What are you asking for?
I for one am happy our NC is not on a public forum negotiating.
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Old 03-30-2016, 07:47 AM
  #5005  
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You guys are seriously deluding yourselves if you think a mediator is going to consider Spirit a peer of United, Delta or American. I hate to say it, because flying an Airbus is flying an Airbus, but we're gonna get a mediator that compares us to jetblue, virgin, southwest and frontier.
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Old 03-30-2016, 07:51 AM
  #5006  
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Originally Posted by Rainbows View Post
You guys are seriously deluding yourselves if you think a mediator is going to consider Spirit a peer of United, Delta or American. I hate to say it, because flying an Airbus is flying an Airbus, but we're gonna get a mediator that compares us to jetblue, virgin, southwest and frontier.
You're right. We shouldn't be compared to them. We have 182 seat 320s on the way. What are they hauling, 150?
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Old 03-30-2016, 08:03 AM
  #5007  
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Originally Posted by bogeymtsu View Post
I for one am happy our NC is not on a public forum negotiating.
I'm not suggesting they negotiate on a public forum. I'm not even suggesting they update us on a weekly or monthly basis. But how about you tell us what you're asking for?

Just tell us please that your asking for current (soon to be old) united rates. Tell us if you're asking for a DC and a 401k match north of 12%.
Or should they burn 3 more years of our time only to find they started with JB rates and a 10% 401k match.
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Old 03-30-2016, 08:35 AM
  #5008  
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Originally Posted by Gunga Din View Post
If DL gets their raise a 5 year CA on the 320 will be at $277 hr!!!!

Makes our $136 rate a double slap in the face!!

Where is our NC? Why don't you guys tell us what's the plan here? What are you asking for?


250 15 yr ca
123 3 yr ca

Gotta pay your dues sonny
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Old 03-30-2016, 08:38 AM
  #5009  
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Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot View Post

Delta negotiations have a mediator coming in next week. Why again aren't we filing for mediation?

Also it sounds like they are looking for another 3 year agreement which I think is smart. Why are we negotiating 5 year deals that turn into eight or ten?

Because we're wusslings that have been made to believe we are worth less then others like an abused spouse.
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Old 03-30-2016, 09:23 AM
  #5010  
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Originally Posted by beverage View Post
Pink eye AND herpes. That is all.
Lol!! Can you believe she sent that to the CEO??
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