Spirit of NKS, Part II
05-15-2016 | 07:56 PM
#6081
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,445
Likes: 1
From: Airplanes
No ****. What's with all the six day pairings in DFW? I should have gone to Envoy and taken the flow.
05-15-2016 | 08:04 PM
#6082
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,690
Likes: 20
From: 60’s Tech, Right
I gotta be honest if they slid over United's contract including the delta snap up and amendable in Jan of 2019. I'd vote yes tomorrow PBS and all. We would stall hiring and upgrades for several months I would guess but the Scope and LTD alone would be worth it. We have zero protection against code sharing. Zero, none. Our ltd is worse than a regional. Get $500/Hr and lose your medical, screwed. The pay and retirement more than make up for transition conflict. If you don't think so you are here as a hobby not a career to make money and support a family.
My point is, we need to make sure that the negotiating team is actually negotiating on our behalf. And I'll say the music sounded different 6 months ago, than these past few pages of posts regarding work rules....
05-15-2016 | 09:00 PM
#6084
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 471
Likes: 0
Is this what you indicated in the most recent survey?? PBS, transition/vacation drop language and all in exchange for United overall compensation? If not, and I don't mean you specifically, I don't think people here voiced their opinions clearly to the negotiating team. Many here were previously demanding United compensation with our current work rules. Now it seems the music has changed and PBS, no more 4-day off guarantee, and transition/vacation drop language isn't as important as it once was.... Maybe I'm misinterpreting these most recent posts....
My point is, we need to make sure that the negotiating team is actually negotiating on our behalf. And I'll say the music sounded different 6 months ago, than these past few pages of posts regarding work rules....
My point is, we need to make sure that the negotiating team is actually negotiating on our behalf. And I'll say the music sounded different 6 months ago, than these past few pages of posts regarding work rules....
05-15-2016 | 09:06 PM
#6085
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Likes: 0
Is this what you indicated in the most recent survey?? PBS, transition/vacation drop language and all in exchange for United overall compensation? If not, and I don't mean you specifically, I don't think people here voiced their opinions clearly to the negotiating team. Many here were previously demanding United compensation with our current work rules. Now it seems the music has changed and PBS, no more 4-day off guarantee, and transition/vacation drop language isn't as important as it once was.... Maybe I'm misinterpreting these most recent posts....
My point is, we need to make sure that the negotiating team is actually negotiating on our behalf. And I'll say the music sounded different 6 months ago, than these past few pages of posts regarding work rules....
My point is, we need to make sure that the negotiating team is actually negotiating on our behalf. And I'll say the music sounded different 6 months ago, than these past few pages of posts regarding work rules....
05-15-2016 | 10:24 PM
#6086
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,499
Likes: 0
I gotta be honest if they slid over United's contract including the delta snap up and amendable in Jan of 2019. I'd vote yes tomorrow PBS and all. We would stall hiring and upgrades for several months I would guess but the Scope and LTD alone would be worth it. We have zero protection against code sharing. Zero, none. Our ltd is worse than a regional. Get $500/Hr and lose your medical, screwed. The pay and retirement more than make up for transition conflict. If you don't think so you are here as a hobby not a career to make money and support a family.
Re codeshare how hard are they planning on bending us over in a frontier merger scenario?
05-15-2016 | 10:27 PM
#6087
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,499
Likes: 0
Haha...I really dont think it matters at this point.
I would tell Bendo and Jyri to their face that I would gladly take PBS and lose conflict and line bidding for United's rates. Im not going to not take a raise of $100 an hour so GH can continue to get his mega conflict transitions every month in DFW. Sorry...nope...
United's CAs will top at $258 an hour for 12 year A320 CA vs $169 for us. So 72 hour guarantee for a United CA will be $18.5k a month. A Spirit CA needs to credit 110 hours to make the same. How magical and awesome do we think our work rules are that crediting 110 to make the same as guarantee at another airline is comparable? Not even mentioning 401k, LTD, profit sharing etc...
By the way...United 320 FO pay at 12 years, $176 an hour...$7 more than our CAs at 12 year....tell me more about our awesome work rules.
I would tell Bendo and Jyri to their face that I would gladly take PBS and lose conflict and line bidding for United's rates. Im not going to not take a raise of $100 an hour so GH can continue to get his mega conflict transitions every month in DFW. Sorry...nope...
United's CAs will top at $258 an hour for 12 year A320 CA vs $169 for us. So 72 hour guarantee for a United CA will be $18.5k a month. A Spirit CA needs to credit 110 hours to make the same. How magical and awesome do we think our work rules are that crediting 110 to make the same as guarantee at another airline is comparable? Not even mentioning 401k, LTD, profit sharing etc...
By the way...United 320 FO pay at 12 years, $176 an hour...$7 more than our CAs at 12 year....tell me more about our awesome work rules.
You seem to be forgetting that out fo's will upgrade fast so they are happy
05-16-2016 | 03:36 AM
#6088
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
I'm glad guys are starting to wake up.
05-16-2016 | 05:20 AM
#6089
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 378
Likes: 0
From: A320 Right
Is this what you indicated in the most recent survey??......
My point is, we need to make sure that the negotiating team is actually negotiating on our behalf. And I'll say the music sounded different 6 months ago, than these past few pages of posts regarding work rules....
My point is, we need to make sure that the negotiating team is actually negotiating on our behalf. And I'll say the music sounded different 6 months ago, than these past few pages of posts regarding work rules....
For some magical reason they won't tell us what the survey results said.
They may come to us in 5 years and give us an offer that is way off base and say "oh but this is what the surveys said". I called BS back then. Delta, AA and UA all tell their pilots what the goal is in the beginning!!!!!
05-16-2016 | 05:38 AM
#6090
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 758
Likes: 1
I've been beating this drum for 6 months! This is the rub with how they (NC) have arbitrarily structured this.
For some magical reason they won't tell us what the survey results said.
They may come to us in 5 years and give us an offer that is way off base and say "oh but this is what the surveys said". I called BS back then. Delta, AA and UA all tell their pilots what the goal is in the beginning!!!!!
For some magical reason they won't tell us what the survey results said.
They may come to us in 5 years and give us an offer that is way off base and say "oh but this is what the surveys said". I called BS back then. Delta, AA and UA all tell their pilots what the goal is in the beginning!!!!!
NEVER allow your opponent at the table to KNOW what you must have! That would be like putting a .357Magnum to your own head.
I do call on the MEC to release the survey results at the TA roadshows. I understand your desire to know now, but it would be a major screw up to show our goals while our NC is still at the table.
edit: You mention DAL, etc. They may publish their goals, but they don't publish their bottom line. The survey results would establish our bottom line.
Last edited by skybolt; 05-16-2016 at 05:53 AM. Reason: added more
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