Ladies and Gentlemen..
This CRAP has to stop. We can't just keep pushing back a Vote?! Tumi TA1.5/2.0 comes out and most of the sitting Reps vote NO... and it passes by one vote and gets out to the pilots.. and it's still a joke after ALL we have seen from our companies Earning Reports and what the other carriers Pilot Groups are doing.

What I keep hearing and seeing from a minority of few is.. lets take a deal, lets extend the timeline to give them the chance to make a deal.. the sky might be falling..

ENOUGH! We don't need to fight (take a swing.. [Yes, there is "irony" there}).. we just need to [b]Hold The Line.
I hope and expect my MEC (Mike Hamilton) to put out a mail Tomorrow or Next Week telling every pilot to go in and Vote NO. That the union will let the TA lie where it falls on the 1st of Nov and we are working on a C23 to include what you have told us. We Hear YOU. Now the Company will hear US.

We will get a legit UPA but it won't be a fix of TumiTA1.0~
Let's let the system work. Recalls are abound and in the New Year we will have an MEC that follows the will of the pilots. The company can EASILY come at us with a legit C23 in Jan/Feb 2023.. and my bet is that our earnings report in Jan '23 will show another good quarter of Profits~

Stay Calm..
Always
Motch

 

I’m honestly shocked that the vote results can keep getting kicked down the road. TA1 should have been released as planned. The end. If it fails, move to the next. Don’t keep moving the vote results date.

 

You sound so confident in TA1 failing. I don’t disagree with you. I said myself, I would take that bet. I said ALPA National will not.

ALPA knows too much $$ is on the line to take that chance.

And if you don’t think United would get rid of ALPA if TA1 ended up passing, your kidding yourself. That’s the old United, brother. The legacy guys here are already the minority. We have 2000 pilots new this year alone.

Also, if u think TK and LCAs leave if TA1 passes, I think you forgot to read the TA. While their are concessions for TK and LCAs, they also get bigger raises and TK gets a huge raise. It doesn’t mean TK instructors and LCAs wouldn’t be ****ed, but that’s because they know they won’t always be an LCA or instrcutor. They definitely wouldn’t want to work under the TA1 turd as a jr lineholder or a reserve CA.

No one would leave TK and the company would have the United Next they wanted from a training perspective. Sr and med seniority pilots would be ****ed and probably stop picking up OT over the holidays. When they see the new Jr guys getting thr premium pay, the Sr guys would start picking it up again.

New pilots would not be hard to find, we have 500 NEW AC on order due to be delivered in the next 5 years and would have the best payrates for the next year most likely (minus Alaska).

Dont be naive in thinking there’s no chance this turd passes.

Make sure you talk to every single person you know and make sure to share with them why they need to log on and vote no. Remember also that the vote stopped in the middle of the summer and some pilots think TA1 was already cancelled.

This would be the biggest blunder in all of aviation unions, but it still wouldn’t stop training or hiring.

 

This had a BIG pay raise for TK folks, not so much for the LCA cadre if you read the fine print. Specifically for those doing QCL and line check work, which is probably 40% of the LCAs. When you added that a lot of the ancillary incentives for LCAs were all the companies discretion, I think many TK guys/gals would look at this as a short term win, long term loss… however TA1 was/is as underwhelming for LCAs it was for line pilots. A passed TA would certainly see a lot of people taking their widebody bids, or just going back to the line in hopes for premium pay

 

There’s always a chance that TA1 passes, but there’s also a chance that my wife gives me a hall pass, so yes, I’m pretty confident that neither happens.

I don’t see United ever getting rid of ALPA, just the current leadership.

The TK raises might keep angry instructors in place, but the LCA’s would be a major problem, and Kirby knows it. OE students would only get signed off at the end of a trip, not sooner if they are ready, but the big issue is the QC LCA’s. Much of what they do is deadhead around the system doing fed checks on new captains and training new LCA’s on partial trips. Most of those guys aren’t the kool-aid drinking company loyalist that some think they are. If only paid by the leg, a large number of them would either step down or refuse to do line checks. Many of our LCA’s on reserve also have lines built for them where they deadhead around doing random line checks on line pilots. Without these functions being performed, United next would be a mess. I am confident enough to let November 1 come and go. We need to flush this turd and focus on the future. The one good thing that came out of this is that it angered the group and we have had time to see what has gone on at the regionals and now at Alaska. We’re not going to get contract 2000 adjusted for inflation and a pony, but the cost to get to 50% + 1 vote has gone up significantly over what would have got the job done prior to the Tumi TA.

 

Regarding the LCA issue, I remember the sales job during the TA1 roadshows at both MEC and LEC meetings. The MEC and NC repeatedly said that the company did not intend to implement the new pay programming for the LCAs "for the foreseeable future" because it was too complex. It was clearly meant to try to limit the backlash of the LCA community for as long as it took to get through the current training push.

 

There is ZERO contractual language that guarantees ANY check airman position, it’s a major exposure and Kirby et al know it.

 

Funny, I don’t know what color tint in your glasses. Not quite rose or black colored but they are definitely selectively tinted. Like stated by previous poster, the new LCA pay rate will go into effect, but the pay for DH won’t change till it benefits the company.

Newhires after 1 year are already lining up for TK instructors and LCAs have already been backfilled. We already had 4 new QCA LCAs on the 737 who backfilled 2 previous positions by very experienced LCAs with 3/4 very inexperienced LCAs(One with 0 LCA experience and another with a month or 2)

Funny u mention OE students getting signed off at the end of a trip…That’s actually current modus operandi. LCAs were told not to try and sign off a student trip per company policy.

The backlog was fixed recently with the Sept drawdown.

Do u really think QC LCAs would be an issue, you don’t understand pilots at all( are u in current ALPA leadership or been off the line for a decade?). As soon as any QC LCA resigns there will be 100s of LCAs who would be happy to fill those positions.

I would never say LCAs are kool aid drinkers, but they aren’t faced with a strike here, this is the choice to train pilots for growth. Unless they are just tired/exhausted they won’t resign, and if they do, they will be replaced by much less experienced LCAs.

The only thing I’m arguing here is I don’t think the vote will close Nov 1st.

There is way too much on the line to leave this up to chance.

At this point, what does ALPA gain with a 90% no vote? Nothing. The company conceded they think it was bad based on market conditions for pilots.

The vote will get pushed back to either continue negotiations or to put together the videos and PowerPoints to sell TA2. If it goes to a vote, UAL ALPA has to know it will pass by an overwhelming majority.

Only my opinion, I don’t profess insider info.

 

What happens to the backlog when the company takes deliver of 170 (20% additional) new aircraft between now and 12/31/23? Why is the company still advertising for I/Es and LCAs?

 

Plus I don’t think those shiny new I/E’s/LCA’s are going to stick around if TA2 slips into nothingness. The ones I’ve talked to going that way seem to be rolling the dice on a solid announcement in the near future, if it doesn’t come I don’t think they’ll stick around.