Denver Base
08-12-2023, 12:07 PM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2022
Posts: 240
This isn’t a good reason to restrict CA PIs. FOs have just as much risk of bending metal as CAs. There are already WB reserve CAs (and line captains in 2020/2021) who fly about as much as PIs do.
08-12-2023, 12:51 PM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 535
Sorry you are completely wrong about this. It's about the responsibility and quarterbacking bad situations that flying once every 60 days doesn't allow for a safe operation. ALPA was adamantly against letting IPs fly as captains that's why there is a restriction in it. You will see in about 3 weeks.
08-12-2023, 01:44 PM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 190
it amazes me that the expectation is for instructors to train captains but heaven forbid they actually be qualified in the position they are training.
08-12-2023, 05:17 PM
#94
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2023
Posts: 28
willing to bet most instructors (who have to train captains btw) could go out and captain better than a lot of the “just off probation never been captains before”could.
it amazes me that the expectation is for instructors to train captains but heaven forbid they actually be qualified in the position they are training.
it amazes me that the expectation is for instructors to train captains but heaven forbid they actually be qualified in the position they are training.
08-12-2023, 07:58 PM
#95
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,951
Sorry you are completely wrong about this. It's about the responsibility and quarterbacking bad situations that flying once every 60 days doesn't allow for a safe operation. ALPA was adamantly against letting IPs fly as captains that's why there is a restriction in it. You will see in about 3 weeks.
How many “experienced captains who do this all the time” have?
How much do our full time ALPA folks get out there and fly? They don’t seem to think it’s a safety issue when they do it.
At my last airline instructors were required to upgrade before they were allowed to teach in the sim because how can you effectively teach and evaluate a job you never do?
I’m sure this will terrify you but most of them were LCA’s as well and didn’t fly any more than TK PI’s do, and still conducted new hire OE a few times a year.
In the five years I was there none of them bent metal or had to do a carpet dance.
Aside from that, they already let evaluators do it and if it was a problem we’d know by now.
Last edited by DarkSideMoon; 08-12-2023 at 08:15 PM.
08-14-2023, 10:17 AM
#96
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: 777
Posts: 2,159
willing to bet most instructors (who have to train captains btw) could go out and captain better than a lot of the “just off probation never been captains before”could.
it amazes me that the expectation is for instructors to train captains but heaven forbid they actually be qualified in the position they are training.
it amazes me that the expectation is for instructors to train captains but heaven forbid they actually be qualified in the position they are training.
08-14-2023, 02:32 PM
#97
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 535
How many PI’s have almost killed 300 people in a perfectly functional 777 lately?
How many “experienced captains who do this all the time” have?
How much do our full time ALPA folks get out there and fly? They don’t seem to think it’s a safety issue when they do it.
At my last airline instructors were required to upgrade before they were allowed to teach in the sim because how can you effectively teach and evaluate a job you never do?
I’m sure this will terrify you but most of them were LCA’s as well and didn’t fly any more than TK PI’s do, and still conducted new hire OE a few times a year.
In the five years I was there none of them bent metal or had to do a carpet dance.
Aside from that, they already let evaluators do it and if it was a problem we’d know by now.
How many “experienced captains who do this all the time” have?
How much do our full time ALPA folks get out there and fly? They don’t seem to think it’s a safety issue when they do it.
At my last airline instructors were required to upgrade before they were allowed to teach in the sim because how can you effectively teach and evaluate a job you never do?
I’m sure this will terrify you but most of them were LCA’s as well and didn’t fly any more than TK PI’s do, and still conducted new hire OE a few times a year.
In the five years I was there none of them bent metal or had to do a carpet dance.
Aside from that, they already let evaluators do it and if it was a problem we’d know by now.
08-14-2023, 03:01 PM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,717
This hasn’t been my experience at all. But I don’t understand your statement about new hires asking questions? What kind of questions are they asking that an instructor can’t answer?
08-14-2023, 03:26 PM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,951
We didn’t almost hull loss a 777 over “questions”.
08-14-2023, 06:56 PM
#100
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 51
You said it right there Francis, you “played” captain in the sim during a canned scenario where you knew what was coming and no one was going to get hurt nor was metal going to get bent and your “captain” interaction was with one person “playing” ATC, dispatch and purser. Sure that makes you ready for the real world. GMAFB
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