Originally Posted by DH2time

So does the TA up for vote supersede in the entirety the current CBA? Does the current TA not have out clauses based on many different possible scenarios including bankruptcy? Do you think this legally binding agreement will somehow be the basis the company uses when and if it decides it files?

I think you need to get a better mattress bro. Your Sealy is keeping you up at night and it’s making you paranoid. It’s pretty clear this has out clauses for just about every single possible outcome. This TA is a stop gap to hopefully keep the company moving toward the goal line of getting out of this mess. Look at the financials bro, if this company decides to shrink 30 percent they can not generate enough revenue to be a sustainable business. They will not have the ability to defend their market share and the cost to retake market share will be too high moving forward. Management is backed into a corner and they need a little help. You think management would not dump 3900 pilots October 1 if they could? Absolutely, but they see the financials, they have played the war games in the C suite, they see and know what’s going on and determined this is the best battle plan. Read the financials please, take 40-50 percent off the revenue pile and see if they can make debt obligations moving forward. Why 40-50 percent? Because if they shrink 30 percent they lose any and all of the pricing power they once had and it will not be coming back. They would be a market follower and not a leader.

Make no mistake about it IMO if this TA fails in 18 months United will be in court. They will not be financially viable moving forward. Call up your financial analyst and ask about his/her take on investing in United. Ask questions, ask about financials moving forward, ask about debt obligations. Or do it yourself, personally I get a high off SEC filings and enjoy the read but that’s a prior life.

To wrap up this way too long post, one is making a choice of a guaranteed court date or giving the company and some pilots a shot at making it to the other side.

Originally Posted by Dogbelch

There is a guaranteed court date coming regardless of this agreement and how generous of us to finance the potential turnaround! I also never said this is legally binding but with that court date only a fool would believe the bk judge or company lawyers wouldn’t leverage this against us.

Originally Posted by Nucflash

“WHEREAS, the parties have discussed the COVID-19 virus pandemic and its impact on the aviation industry; and
WHEREAS, the parties desire to avoid Pilot furloughs to the greatest extent possible and to bolster the long-term sustainability of United Airlines and the careers of its Pilots; and
WHEREAS, the parties sought an agreement that recognizes and rewards the sacrifices made by the Pilot group in entering this agreement;”

Yeah, I’m sure the judge (in cahoots with the company, of course) would blow right past the whole purpose of this TA when he spitefully pillaged each and every one of the hundreds of pages of the UPA.....

Originally Posted by Dogbelch

Lmfao!!!! Those are some iron clad legal protections and language right there!!!! Of all the pandering yes vote themed posts by you this one is just sold gold delusion. You would be a used car salesman wet dream.

Originally Posted by Dogbelch

There is a guaranteed court date coming regardless of this agreement and how generous of us to finance the potential turnaround! I also never said this is legally binding but with that court date only a fool would believe the bk judge or company lawyers wouldn’t leverage this against us. I will reiterate my main position and heartburn there is no upside for us in a recovery mode. 5%?? That almost insulting. How about granting us some of the stock the company blew billions on? The billions that would get us through this time crunch. Management backed themselves into this financial corner and I don’t see them offering their salaries for this turnaround plan with their war games.
You do bring up good points that I don’t disagree with. My beef is who finances it and the return on investment.

Btw, I sleep just fine at night but I’ll mention the 6k bed to the wife.

Originally Posted by DH2time

Make no mistake about it IMO if this TA fails in 18 months United will be in court. They will not be financially viable moving forward. Call up your financial analyst and ask about his/her take on investing in United. Ask questions, ask about financials moving forward, ask about debt obligations. Or do it yourself, personally I get a high off SEC filings and enjoy the read but that’s a prior life.

To wrap up this way too long post, one is making a choice of a guaranteed court date or giving the company and some pilots a shot at making it to the other side.

Originally Posted by Dave Fitzgerald

One thing history has taught us, and something we all need to keep in mind, is that nothing the pilots do will have any affect on whether UAL goes into bankruptcy. This agreement, from a court point of view, is a blip.

Employees cannot save a company from a pandemic, let alone decades of mismanagement. Nothing we do now will affect that.

I cannot stress this enough, what we are doing now, is positioning the company for the possible recovery! Will management thank us in the end if it works? Doubtful. Will Scott give us a contract post recovery? Probably not.

It's a hard pill to swallow, but whether you vote yes or no, won't make much of a difference in court. Quality of life? Yes. If you can pay the mortgage? Yes. It's very personal to us, not to Scott.

Originally Posted by Dogbelch

Lmfao!!!! Those are some iron clad legal protections and language right there!!!! Of all the pandering yes vote themed posts by you this one is just sold gold delusion. You would be a used car salesman wet dream.

Originally Posted by blindhorse1

We will be a much smaller airline. That is a fact. How do you not see that?