ThumbsUp

We have yet to see what the pool inbound to Aviate looks like, but I would assume that competitive applicants would have credentials far in excess of the minimums, just like those for any other competitive program. So while a GED is all that is required for Aviate, since a 4-year degree is required to be hired by United, I’m sure there will be ample college graduates applying to fill their rosters and then some. The my have some other basic aptitude stuff on the application as well. So while it may be more difficult to measure the difference between 1&10, it probably isn’t hard to differentiate between 1&1000.

hummingbear

I don’t know if I necessarily agree with that number, but at a certain distance, the differences on the spectrum of aptitude will be easier to see. What you really end up with is a certain percentage of guys that are over-qualified, a certain percentage that are adequately qualified, and a certain percentage that are under-qualified. Within those general divisions, a lot of the candidates will look the same on paper; and I’m skeptical of anyone in any industry who claims they can make much more accurate assessments than that from a resume, a personality test, or even an in-person interview.

Your stated measuring criteria of a 4 year degree & “basic aptitude stuff” will surely eliminate some from the bottom end, but are unlikely to do much to create clear rankings among the many thousands who will meet those standards. My sense is that United will have plenty of applicants that are either very well or adequately qualified for admission to a flight training program- to the extent they’ll be able to choose a diverse group from among their best options to fill 5,000 slots without needing to draw from the under-qualified ones. (My opinion only.) If they can’t, they’re not bound contractually (or even verbally if you look closely at their statements) to meet any diversity metric. In 2 months, no one’s going to remember they made this announcement- much less in 15 years when we can finally assess whether or not it actually resulted in a more diverse airline- so what would be the benefit to UAL of wasting training dollars on Aviate candidates that are measurably more likely to wash out than their peers?

That’s why I’m not bothered by this. But again, for anyone who thinks aptitude & qualification are as linear and easily apparent as many on this forum seem to, I can at least understand why that leads to outrage over the announcement.

JurgenKlopp

This thread really needs the dead horse GIF of flightnfo.com days. Oh please weigh in General Lee...

tyler durden

This would be hysterically funny if not so tragic. Hard to imagine these two handling an emergency. Hiring pilots is serious business; social engineering should not be part of it. The most qualified candidates should be selected, regardless of skin color or gender.

“The two pilots were oblivious to the landing wheels being down and diverted to Nagpur when the fuel ran low, it was reported.

It was when they tried to lower the landing gear as they prepared to land that they realised it was already down, a source told The Times of India.

A spokesman for Air India told the paper that the two female pilots have been suspended.

He said: ‘The pilots were de-rostered (taken off flying duty) after the incident was reported.’

A serving long-haul airline captain told MailOnline Travel that he was surprised the pilots hadn't noticed the landing gear being down, if that was indeed the issue.

He said: 'I would say it is pretty staggering that the pilots - and cabin crew - wouldn't notice the huge difference in noise levels with the gear left down.”

tyler durden

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test_o...viation_Skills

if anyone is truly interested in objective criteria to determine candidate suitability, the US government has already spent a fortune developing and implementing a test that will quickly and easily measure a candidate's aptitude for flight training. The TBAS is a significant part of the Air Force’s selection process for a reason: Washouts are costly. Shame the TBAS wasn’t available when Scott Kirby applied for Air Force pilot training, might have spared everyone the pain of washing him out.

For those wondering, Unlike politically correct social engineers in HR and corporate headquarters, the TBAS does not account for gender or ethnicity differences. Neither does the aircraft. It’s all fine and cute to go through a resume to find one’s volunteer activities and participation in the student body, but in the end someone has to actually land in gusty, white out, icy conditions.

Sure, there are many that would claim such tests are “racist“, or “sexist“. But I’m also sure they would be a little more selective if their family was on board that aircraft headed into Bozeman Montana at night in a snow storm.

I’m also quite certain these SJWs would consider the rand study equally “insensitive”.

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/ran...AND_RR1936.pdf

Joachim

I'm personally appalled by the lack of female roofers and road workers. It is really unfair to women. Something must be done!

HuggyU2

Do you feel better now that you've gotten that off of your chest?

tyler durden

Did it hurt your feelings that the very person that SHOULD know from experience that the highly challenging and potentially disastrous perils of flight training demands only the BEST qualified should be selected? Of all of the CEOs, Kirby is the only one that launched this program yet also the only one that was eliminated from Air Force pilot training. No doubt an extremely intelligent and competent individual, but not cut out for aviation. Not everyone is and if you’ve been in this business long enough, you would realize that and how tragically unforgiving it can be. He should know better.

With the looming pilot shortage and the alarming probability of street captains, what criteria was used for this decision that could impact not only his shareholders, but the safety of the flying public? Did this ambitious training program involve an objective skills/aptitude test (TBAS) other than skin color or gender? The military still uses standardized testing, I wonder why?
only a matter time before the social justice warriors get rid of that too.

While certainly vogue to discard all standardized testing and aptitude tests like SAT/ACT, as racist, perhaps we should draw the line we’re lives are at risk.

Curious how data driven, verifiable studies and statistics claim to be used to support critical decisions ...unless such data fails to suit ones personal social agenda.

Apologies to the sensitive, but these are deadly serious discussions that warrant adult conversation, not feel-good board room chat. I’m quite certain the experienced straight shooters at United ‘s training department were not invited to the discussion

dawgdriver

It's been tried. USN Lt Kara Hultgreen paid the price.

"An Accuracy in Media article quotes CDR Tom Sobiek, commanding officer of Fighter Squadron VF-124, as saying of the four female pilots in his squadron, "The women are going to graduate regardless of how they performed" and "the Navy was in a race with the Air Force to get the first female fighter pilot". It quotes Sobiek denying making any such statement. "That is a flat [ass] lie," he said. "And whoever told you that, if they were under oath, should be taken to task."[11] Several of the instructors, however, testified to the contrary. During a subsequent interview with Mike Wallace of CBS "60 Minutes," Sobiek finally admitted that he had made statements that may have conveyed the impression that the women would not be allowed to fail. He added that some female pilots were advanced in combat aviation ahead of many men who were kept waiting or forced to resign."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara_Hultgreen

https://www.nhd.org/sites/default/fi...ynlucente3.pdf

NotoriousHIV

[QUOTE=tyler durden;3223328]Did it hurt your feelings that the very person that SHOULD know from experience that the highly challenging and potentially disastrous perils of flight training demands only the BEST qualified should be selected? Of all of the CEOs, Kirby is the only one that launched this program yet also the only one that was eliminated from Air Force pilot training. No doubt an extremely intelligent and competent individual, but not cut out for aviation. Not everyone is and if you’ve been in this business long enough, you would realize that and how tragically unforgiving it can be. He should know better.

Kirby never failed out of pilot training, actually. At charm school 2 years ago someone asked him to his face if he washed out, and he said that he never applied because he couldn't keep from throwing up while doing the gliders during the summer between semesters. He said he went to the academy thinking he wanted to be a pilot, but doing the glider thing helped him realize he wasn't cut out for it (vomiting) and then switched directions. Bebe was staring down the captain that asked, pretty funny stuff.

Source: Bebe