Age 67
07-17-2023 | 05:02 PM
#401
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,213
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From: guppy CA
07-17-2023 | 11:57 PM
#402
On Reserve
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 54
Likes: 1
A few thoughts...
This might shine a light on the FAA medical process that might not be ideal for a lot of people. Be careful what you wish for...
Returnees are getting stapled to the bottom for sure.
If this thing passes, I seriously doubt ICAO will just immediately follow in lockstep like everyone seems to arrogantly think they will. We ****ed away a lot of that clout with the MAX debacle. A change would require a very hard diplomatic push from the Biden Administration, plus most international carriers aren't pushing for this, neither are other countries. ICAO member states aren't exactly breaking their neck in a rush to appease reps from backwater flyover states in rural America without the approval of POTUS.
And if they did, the rules for international operations would have a lot more strings attached. Possibly relegating 65+ to SIC only, or even IRO only. Or maybe even put even more restrictions on the 60+ pilots. Which personally I'd be fine with.
This might shine a light on the FAA medical process that might not be ideal for a lot of people. Be careful what you wish for...
Returnees are getting stapled to the bottom for sure.
If this thing passes, I seriously doubt ICAO will just immediately follow in lockstep like everyone seems to arrogantly think they will. We ****ed away a lot of that clout with the MAX debacle. A change would require a very hard diplomatic push from the Biden Administration, plus most international carriers aren't pushing for this, neither are other countries. ICAO member states aren't exactly breaking their neck in a rush to appease reps from backwater flyover states in rural America without the approval of POTUS.
And if they did, the rules for international operations would have a lot more strings attached. Possibly relegating 65+ to SIC only, or even IRO only. Or maybe even put even more restrictions on the 60+ pilots. Which personally I'd be fine with.
07-18-2023 | 08:45 AM
#403
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,905
Likes: 691
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
If this thing passes, I seriously doubt ICAO will just immediately follow in lockstep like everyone seems to arrogantly think they will. We ****ed away a lot of that clout with the MAX debacle. A change would require a very hard diplomatic push from the Biden Administration, plus most international carriers aren't pushing for this, neither are other countries. ICAO member states aren't exactly breaking their neck in a rush to appease reps from backwater flyover states in rural America without the approval of POTUS.
So member states can continue to do what they want, as they have already been doing for years, with some states allowing ICAO pilots to operate at a higher age limit within their airspace than their own pilots can.
The path of least resistance for the ICAO bureauracry would be to raise it to 67 to avoid a hot mess for their most significant member. If enough other member states protested vehemently, then it could become contentious.
Think of ICAO not as city hall but rather the board of a condo HOA... and the US is a rental corporation which owns half of the units in the building.
07-18-2023 | 09:03 AM
#404
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Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 4,083
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From: CRJ9 CA
I don't think you understand ICAO. They are not some omnipotent world government entity, they represent the member states and the US accounts for almost half of global business. They can allow 67 year olds to fly in other countries without impacting the age limits those countries set for their own pilots. Various countries have age limits for their own pilots between 60-62 on the low end all the way to no limit on the high end.
So member states can continue to do what they want, as they have already been doing for years, with some states allowing ICAO pilots to operate at a higher age limit within their airspace than their own pilots can.
The path of least resistance for the ICAO bureauracry would be to raise it to 67 to avoid a hot mess for their most significant member. If enough other member states protested vehemently, then it could become contentious.
Think of ICAO not as city hall but rather the board of a condo HOA... and the US is a rental corporation which owns half of the units in the building.
So member states can continue to do what they want, as they have already been doing for years, with some states allowing ICAO pilots to operate at a higher age limit within their airspace than their own pilots can.
The path of least resistance for the ICAO bureauracry would be to raise it to 67 to avoid a hot mess for their most significant member. If enough other member states protested vehemently, then it could become contentious.
Think of ICAO not as city hall but rather the board of a condo HOA... and the US is a rental corporation which owns half of the units in the building.
07-18-2023 | 11:11 AM
#405
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,561
Likes: 0
From: Captain
I don't think you understand ICAO. They are not some omnipotent world government entity, they represent the member states and the US accounts for almost half of global business. They can allow 67 year olds to fly in other countries without impacting the age limits those countries set for their own pilots. Various countries have age limits for their own pilots between 60-62 on the low end all the way to no limit on the high end.
So member states can continue to do what they want, as they have already been doing for years, with some states allowing ICAO pilots to operate at a higher age limit within their airspace than their own pilots can.
The path of least resistance for the ICAO bureauracry would be to raise it to 67 to avoid a hot mess for their most significant member. If enough other member states protested vehemently, then it could become contentious.
Think of ICAO not as city hall but rather the board of a condo HOA... and the US is a rental corporation which owns half of the units in the building.
So member states can continue to do what they want, as they have already been doing for years, with some states allowing ICAO pilots to operate at a higher age limit within their airspace than their own pilots can.
The path of least resistance for the ICAO bureauracry would be to raise it to 67 to avoid a hot mess for their most significant member. If enough other member states protested vehemently, then it could become contentious.
Think of ICAO not as city hall but rather the board of a condo HOA... and the US is a rental corporation which owns half of the units in the building.
FYI
in the past French did not let over 60 pilots fly over their airspace
they changed after we changed here
don’t be so sure if it changes here they will follow
no pilot jobs in Europe or shortage like here
Many pilots are unemployed there
Biden should veto and say no to age 67
07-18-2023 | 11:21 AM
#406
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 536
Likes: 22
From: 756 left...
I don't think you understand ICAO. They are not some omnipotent world government entity, they represent the member states and the US accounts for almost half of global business. They can allow 67 year olds to fly in other countries without impacting the age limits those countries set for their own pilots. Various countries have age limits for their own pilots between 60-62 on the low end all the way to no limit on the high end.
So member states can continue to do what they want, as they have already been doing for years, with some states allowing ICAO pilots to operate at a higher age limit within their airspace than their own pilots can.
The path of least resistance for the ICAO bureauracry would be to raise it to 67 to avoid a hot mess for their most significant member. If enough other member states protested vehemently, then it could become contentious.
Think of ICAO not as city hall but rather the board of a condo HOA... and the US is a rental corporation which owns half of the units in the building.
So member states can continue to do what they want, as they have already been doing for years, with some states allowing ICAO pilots to operate at a higher age limit within their airspace than their own pilots can.
The path of least resistance for the ICAO bureauracry would be to raise it to 67 to avoid a hot mess for their most significant member. If enough other member states protested vehemently, then it could become contentious.
Think of ICAO not as city hall but rather the board of a condo HOA... and the US is a rental corporation which owns half of the units in the building.
The scheduling nightmare this presents is mindblowing to say the least. lets say if we go to france you can be 65 but italy is 67 and Spain is 66.
this just opens up a can of worms and is why airline management doesn't want this as well as LTD abuse.
As far as ALPA I believe we should have had a vote to see what the majority of the membership wanted, yes I know we don't mean beans to the legislators , but it would cement to those on both sides what direction we want our union to go.
it also would hopefully stop those who are going outside our union for their own self interests? yeah probably not but....
Now it's just a hot mess with people flinging feces on both sides of the Isle. personally i don't give a rats behind either way.
Another problem is if/when it goes to 67 the same folks will argue age discrimination and shoot for 69? 71? die? like it or not we are in a safety sensitive job and the line should be drawn somewhere? where? idk I'll leave that up to the membership.
The only good thing is unlike going from 60 to 65 times are better and hopefully stagnation will be minimal. time will tell
07-18-2023 | 11:34 AM
#407
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,530
Likes: 198
From: UNA
FYI
in the past French did not let over 60 pilots fly over their airspace
they changed after we changed here
don’t be so sure if it changes here they will follow
no pilot jobs in Europe or shortage like here
Many pilots are unemployed there
Biden should veto and say no to age 67
in the past French did not let over 60 pilots fly over their airspace
they changed after we changed here
don’t be so sure if it changes here they will follow
no pilot jobs in Europe or shortage like here
Many pilots are unemployed there
Biden should veto and say no to age 67
07-18-2023 | 12:01 PM
#408
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,213
Likes: 14
From: guppy CA
This website shows more than 1000 open pilot jobs in Europe: https://pilotsglobal.com/search?source=2210858
Asia and the Middle East are very short on pilots.
https://speednews.com/article/8425
https://www.agbi.com/articles/emirat...hortage-looms/
The above articles are from a very cursory google search. You might want to figure out how to work the google on the internet machine. ... paraphrased from Blades of Glory
07-18-2023 | 12:16 PM
#409
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,561
Likes: 0
From: Captain
Source? I've read that they're not in a deep shortage yet, but will be starting in 2024.
This website shows more than 1000 open pilot jobs in Europe: https://pilotsglobal.com/search?source=2210858
Asia and the Middle East are very short on pilots.
https://speednews.com/article/8425
https://www.agbi.com/articles/emirat...hortage-looms/
The above articles are from a very cursory google search. You might want to figure out how to work the google on the internet machine. ... paraphrased from Blades of Glory
This website shows more than 1000 open pilot jobs in Europe: https://pilotsglobal.com/search?source=2210858
Asia and the Middle East are very short on pilots.
https://speednews.com/article/8425
https://www.agbi.com/articles/emirat...hortage-looms/
The above articles are from a very cursory google search. You might want to figure out how to work the google on the internet machine. ... paraphrased from Blades of Glory
ALPA is here to stay but keep trying
one day you will learn
2024 ok got it
Major National airlines loosing jobs to low bidders but ok Google specialist that you are
07-18-2023 | 12:36 PM
#410
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,213
Likes: 14
From: guppy CA
LOL! Making up stuff again. Caught again.
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