flyguy23

Interested in running those numbers against current book over the same timeframe for context?

767pilot

There are court rulings at least as far back as the United strike of 1985 protecting probationary strikers. United fired them all, then later hired them back with seniority behind the scabs. Courts reversed it.

Noworkallplay

Fear mongering to get pilots onboard. What a great tactic to capture a few more votes. History proves probationary pilots are as protected as none probationary pilots.

Remember you are locking these rates/retirement/work rules in until at least 2026/2027. This assumes a 2 year bargaining cycle. How does history look on those assumptions?

flyguy23

Instead of fear mongering (which is exactly what you just did), let’s try logic and friendly conversation. You are correct those rules and rates will be locked in until least 2026/27. 100% concede that point. Where I’m hung up is I’ve yet to find someone who can even attempt to tell me how we’ll have a new and improved contract by that exact same time frame if we vote no on this. I’ve asked quite a few and I haven’t even seen an attempt to answer this question. Just a bunch of grumbling about how much they hate this TA.

I’m still very much open to both sides, but my vote will 100% come down to whether I believe we are absolutely better off voting no, and so far I’ve gotten nothing on that end. Please enlighten me as I’m all ears and open minded. Thanks.

Noworkallplay

I think many have pointed out that you can bargain with the company side-by-side with the Teamsters. If their deal gets done quickly you could assume you would have a contract by the end of 2023.

flyguy23

We’d have a contract by the end of 2023??? That would be unprecedented in the best of circumstances. Full contracts with an unfriendly management team take a min of 4 years. Less than 2 years? That’s fantasy.

What is your counter to the union saying there will essentially be no negotiating until 2024 whether we vote yes or no? It’s their contention the NMB will be sympathetic to the UPS dispute with the teamsters. Are they wrong?

In also hung up on the idea our union would have to spend a ton of our money to negotiate the next few years knowing nothing will get done. Seems like a waste of our resources.

jetlaggy

Can’t bargain with someone who doesn’t want to be bothered with at the time. I think we ALL understand that.

FTv3

There has been no convincing or well thought out argument for voting no presented anywhere. Best case scenario for no vote is we get a contract vote a few months earlier. Otherwise I think it’s all just a bunch of back seat drivers making a little too much noise on this one…

CL300

You act like a FedEx pilot on their side of the forum. I’m not sure your opinion has much bearing on our TA discussion.

Section Eight

And no one has yet to answer my question, EB included.

Why do they want this? I see absolutely no reason we should vote for this for that alone.

What does this give them? Because it gives them something. They offered this up out of the goodness or their cold black hearts?

Explain to me how we “got them on this one” and I’ll vote yes. If the “offered” 477 then they are getting off cheap.

In my opinion, we (the IPA) always think we have the upper hand when something like this is negotiated, only to find out later we got screwed.

If someone can change my mind on that, I’ll vote yes, because I think there’s something else going on here for this “too good to be true” offer to be handed to us.

And before we get into all the hard works that went into it, I applaud them for that, I truly do. But they laughed their ass off as soon as our reps left the room, I could almost guarantee you of that.

That’s why I think we should start this sooner than later. All other things aside that reason alone is enough for me to vote No, because it gives them something..what that is I don’t know.

But I will bet that somewhere in ATL they want us to buy off on this, otherwise why even offer it? They could have told us to pack sand and we’ll see you in a couple years, but they didn’t. They blinked, and I don’t like it.

carry on….