CardboardCutout

This seems to be the crux of the issue. AFAICT, the EB believes that we lose at most six months on the clock by taking the deal. But my math suggests that we lose two years when it comes to getting in to and out of mediation. Can someone explain to us the EB's view on this, because I didn't catch it if it was in the videos.

flyguy23

Im still very much on the fence as I see both sides. I’ll be going to the GMM and asking why they’re saying the timeline doesn’t change regardless of the outcome of this vote. IF that’s true, it would be downright ridiculous to vote no. If it’s not true and a contract would come sooner, it would be downright ridiculous to vote yes. So the details matter and I’m hoping this can be cleared up. More specifically, I want to know why the company wouldn’t send the “B” team in 2 years, just like they said they would this year. What makes them think the timeline is unaffected?

So keep in mind there is a chance you’ll be subjecting yourself to this “horrific scheduling crapola” for 5+ years, but for 10% less pay. Need to take in all available info.

Best to remove emotion and try to take a long hard look at the available facts. The decision sucks either way, but it shouldn’t be made quickly.

jetlaggy

The theory is that even tho “mediation” may start, the decision/deal makers for the company will be dealing with IBT and we will be dealing with someone who cant even sign off on an extra roll of toilet paper. Thus waiting for the A team either way.

flyguy23

They are also saying the mediator would be sympathetic to the company needing to focus on the IBT. I want to hear more about why? A different set of negotiations shouldn’t have any bearing on ours, but apparently it does. Need more info.

Section Eight

I’m not him, but I love how the personal mud slinging starts, proof that anything other than the narrative is taken as a threat to our existence.

if you’d like to actually discuss the merits of this TA we can do that, but myself and others get very tired of the fact that anything questioned is anti EB/IPA, etc. The mere fact that you question anything gets you immediately categorized as a ““fallujian”. Aren’t we supposed to question those elected, isn’t that part of checks a balances?

if you want to know why this particular TA sucks so bad, it’s because we haven’t to been able to muster the strength to look beyond the next trough premium, whatever, to do what is necessary for them to have any power to do anything more.

We are responsible for that, no one else. That more than anything is why this sandwich tastes so bad, and lots of us don’t want to admit that, but there it is.

Jungle (RIP) may have said the same thing (or similar) but sadly we’ve lost his perspective on these issues forever.

I’m a no because this has to end, and we just keep dragging down the road. You can make all the arguments you’d like for “bird in hand” etc. but I’d rather get this “fight” started and get to mediation as early as possible than take the pennies being offered. And it must mean something to them, otherwise why sign it? I mean really, do you think the company signed off on this out of their benevolence? They must gain something by delaying this, otherwise why even entertain it. THAT, should be the million dollar question, and this more than anything else tells me that we need to start earlier than later.

But at some point, the hard work is going to have to start, and sadly my biggest concern is we wont have what it takes to do that. 40% of our group knows nothing but rainbows, flying pigs, and premiums, and we’ve shown (fairly recently) that we can’t even help out in the slightest to do what’s needed to get anything done.

Until the next battle, off to my foxhole…

Carry on….

Recliner

And if you're wrong about the mediation time line.... wouldn't a no vote be a no confidence vote for the EB?

JohnnyR

Why 2 years? Was a one year extension discussed? Why haven’t we emphasize no favors/wavers? EVERY TIME I’m in the AOC I hear guys saying they are on a J/A. I bet 10-20% of pilots working are on their off days by choice!

BrowntownNewbie

I don’t see it that way at all. I haven’t heard anyone say they don’t trust the EB or they are mad at the EB over this. I’m certainly not.

If your concerns are anything less than an overwhelming YES vote will weaken the EB/union… buckle your seat belt. If this thing passes, it won’t be by a large margin.

hammer pants

I would imagine any management team would love nothing more than to lock their employees into a 10% raise over 5 years. The fact they get it during a period of out of control inflation and a historic pilot shortage is just icing on the cake for them.

BTW agree with everything you said.

flyguy23

I would imagine they’d love a 0% raise over 5 years as well. Just sayin…