jetlaggy

protected by what? They are negotiated

MidwestMaster

For any UPS pilot considering voting yes, go look at the United TA. United already had more vacation (6 weeks instead of 5), 2nd year captains, double the first year pay, FAR 117 rules, pass travel privileges, the list goes on etc. United pilots just got a TA that has a 50% higher wage increase than UPS offered. Go read the United forum. Nobody has yet to write something they like about it and everyone appears to be a no vote. Why are UPS pilots considering voting yes to a TA that is significantly worse than what the United pilots are about to vote NO to?

navigatro

because UPS is not United. They do not negotiate or operate in good faith. The sooner you realize that, the less it will sting.

MidwestMaster

Then why does the IPA take it upon themselves to compare UPS to United? Voting yes to this TA is the final nail in the coffin for scheduling improvements. A mediator will look at our group in 2031 after the 2025 and 2028 TA extension and say "you guys kept voting to extend these scheduling rules! You're on your own".

flyguy23

Significantly worse? By what standard? They are getting a larger raise by %, but their rates still trail ours and their work rules are nothing to be impressed by. So what standard? They have an extra week of vacation, but I’d take ours over theirs by A LOT with OCV.

Anyone who uses travel pass privileges as something to brag about has no clue what they’re saying. Those were basically useless. Ive been MUCH better off accumulating miles at work and buying tickets.


Im glad to hear they are voting it down, it didn’t raise the bar for us at all…

jetlaggy

Nothing on your list appeals to me when you dig into the details. ie. Vac and Ocv are def not equal

flyguy23

The TA naysayers will do themselves a disservice to use United’s TA as a reason. I don’t see a single thing in the highlights that I’d take over what we have other than first year pay.

MidwestMaster

It's not about what UPS pilots have. It's about the wants for the future. What's in the current contract is water under the bridge. That ship sailed years ago. This is about securing QOL improvements going forward and correct me if I'm wrong but with the exception of a bankruptcy, I don't know of any airline that came back with a worse TA than a previously rejected one. I don't walk into a car dealership and take the first price they offer me. Same logic applies. As mentioned in previous posts, UPS wants this. They agreed to this. There is obviously something in it for them, and that is exactly what IPA pilots should all be fearful of if this gets voted in. Even if the pilots have a 1 in 10 chance of getting a new contract earlier than what the IPA claims by voting the TA down, then the gamble is a wash with a 10% raise over 3 more long years of horrifying schedules

tnkrdrvr

The unfortunate reality for us is that it does not appear that anyone is going to get a TA that blows ours out of the water. United has bigger percentage raises and retro to the start of this year, but that basically just catches them up with us. My fear, regardless of how we vote on the TA, is that there will be nothing of note to pattern bargain against. FedEx will need even greater percentage raises just to equal our rates, Delta has very few pilots at their top rate and may prioritize other contract sections, and AA is AA.

flyguy23

I truly hate that logic that is suddenly being used, “they agreed to this” “something in it for them”. That logic dictates we never agree to anything with the company, ever. There is ALWAYS something in it for both sides, period.

Using your car dealership analogy, how about we look at todays car market. You walk into a dealership and they offer you a price, you say no, I want something better. They say ok, there’s the door. That is literally how it works today. UPS isn’t going to negotiate something better if we vote no, and many in ATL will celebrate not giving us a raise.