Allegiant Air
04-06-2016, 07:19 AM
#2211
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Hoping for any position
Posts: 2,504
Originally Posted by N1sync
Rumor has it, 37.5% pay increase and 12 percent retirement. That'll never pass.
04-06-2016, 07:24 AM
#2212
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A320
Posts: 1,347
You both realize we work for the most profitable airline at a time when they can't staff it due to turnover and a pilot shortage. There has never been a better time to negotiate.
Personally I expect big improvements throughout and some payback for my time being underpaid while stockholders got rich or I vote no.
It's 2016 and we all need to see that the lost decade is in the past.
Personally I expect big improvements throughout and some payback for my time being underpaid while stockholders got rich or I vote no.
It's 2016 and we all need to see that the lost decade is in the past.
04-06-2016, 07:33 AM
#2213
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Hoping for any position
Posts: 2,504
Originally Posted by labbats
You both realize we work for the most profitable airline at a time when they can't staff it due to turnover and a pilot shortage. There has never been a better time to negotiate.
Personally I expect big improvements throughout and some payback for my time being underpaid while stockholders got rich or I vote no.
It's 2016 and we all need to see that the lost decade is in the past.
Personally I expect big improvements throughout and some payback for my time being underpaid while stockholders got rich or I vote no.
It's 2016 and we all need to see that the lost decade is in the past.
I hope you're right, but I'm not holding my breath.
04-06-2016, 07:39 AM
#2214
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: MD80
Posts: 188
Is it true the negotiations committee isn't even asking for retro pay or a signing bonus? I've heard through rumor the chairman say something like... We'll never get it so why ask. I sure hope that's not true or he needs to go.
04-06-2016, 07:39 AM
#2215
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Da Bus
Posts: 481
Originally Posted by labbats
You both realize we work for the most profitable airline at a time when they can't staff it due to turnover and a pilot shortage. There has never been a better time to negotiate.
Personally I expect big improvements throughout and some payback for my time being underpaid while stockholders got rich or I vote no.
It's 2016 and we all need to see that the lost decade is in the past.
Personally I expect big improvements throughout and some payback for my time being underpaid while stockholders got rich or I vote no.
It's 2016 and we all need to see that the lost decade is in the past.
04-06-2016, 09:38 AM
#2217
New Hire
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by labbats
You both realize we work for the most profitable airline at a time when they can't staff it due to turnover and a pilot shortage. There has never been a better time to negotiate.
Personally I expect big improvements throughout and some payback for my time being underpaid while stockholders got rich or I vote no.
It's 2016 and we all need to see that the lost decade is in the past.
Personally I expect big improvements throughout and some payback for my time being underpaid while stockholders got rich or I vote no.
It's 2016 and we all need to see that the lost decade is in the past.
The real weapon was the strike threat last year and for some reason, your union thought it was a good idea to fire the one bullet in the gun the night before giving the company enough time to lawyer up and get a judge involved.
You guys are now getting slow rolled and it's painful to watch from a distance.
Token negotiation progress buys the company another year or so (maybe more) in mediation. They can "hammer away" at an agreement with you for another year or so before even touching the real deal breakers...the whole thing is a ruse. It's not good faith negotiating, but it can be kept barely above the good faith line in mediation for longer than you think.
Eventually, the battle items will be back on the table. Now reset the clock - how long did it take for negotiations to devolve from the table to the 'strike tomorrow' text? That's a good benchmark for the next stage in delay process which lasts another X # of months or years before either an agreement is reached or there is a strike that lasts God knows how long.
A small sample of the battle items include...
Pay rates (no band system!), Min guarantee, duty rigs, 401k increase, agency shop, etc, etc, etc
Each one of these is a an opportunity for delay. Even the best case scenario of the company caving one issue at a time can take a long time. 3 months to agree on 401k, another 2 months on a daily rig, pay rates still looming, agency shop still not touched....
All the while, the FAA is crawling up the company's a$s, emergency landings are a weekly event and host of truly systemic issues continue to eat away at the airline like cancer. Also, during this time the pilot turnover re-populates the bottom half of the seniority list with 'cautiously optimistic' pilots who think (and post here) about managements chance of stance and hope for the future and how it's better than their old regional.
Read this as - pilots who devalue your "NO" vote "weapon" in and through their willingness to give the process time. Are they likely to vote for a payscale that tops at $175/$125 and get 'em next time on the myriad of other items that make a pilot career valuable? I think you know the answer.
This is the game. Open your eyes. I know a lot of good guys and girls at Allegiant who deserve better. You guys are exposed to a higher risk flight environment than the typical legacy pilot and arguably deserve a higher total compensation level because of it. The company can certainly afford it.
Your unity is your leverage, but you need to wield the stick! The industry is marching forward, but it's patently incorrect to assume every time another group leapfrogs to the front that your expectations do as well. This plays right into managements strategy. They can participate in negotiating with you, knowing full well that the wider 'the expectations gap', the easier it will be to continue to slow roll in the battle phase.
The battle should be on now. Broke airplanes shouldn't fly, regardless of where they break. Tired pilots shouldn't fly. Sick pilots shouldn't fly. Open time shouldn't be your problem. Mission modes certainly aren't your problem. Anything, and I mean ANYTHING, beyond safely flying from A to B should not be your problem. A pilot group with the right mentality would collectively laugh out loud at each and every mission mode.
Stop collectively being your own worst enemies by accommodating the operation (yes, this will make your daily flying experience harder), and stop lying to yourself that sh^t magically gets better by waiting patiently for payback as other pilot groups vanish on the horizon ahead.
The slow roll is in play. See it and ask yourself what can we do now to stop it?
Just my humble 2 cents...
04-06-2016, 11:08 AM
#2219
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Hoping for any position
Posts: 2,504
Originally Posted by 3to1Glide
You may want to reset your expectations back to reality. Your 'no' vote is not the weapon you think it is. Reference 'no' votes recently at Southwest and Delta (companies that actually intend to and will eventually make solid agreements with their pilots) and both are still in delay mode months later.
The real weapon was the strike threat last year and for some reason, your union thought it was a good idea to fire the one bullet in the gun the night before giving the company enough time to lawyer up and get a judge involved.
You guys are now getting slow rolled and it's painful to watch from a distance.
Token negotiation progress buys the company another year or so (maybe more) in mediation. They can "hammer away" at an agreement with you for another year or so before even touching the real deal breakers...the whole thing is a ruse. It's not good faith negotiating, but it can be kept barely above the good faith line in mediation for longer than you think.
Eventually, the battle items will be back on the table. Now reset the clock - how long did it take for negotiations to devolve from the table to the 'strike tomorrow' text? That's a good benchmark for the next stage in delay process which lasts another X # of months or years before either an agreement is reached or there is a strike that lasts God knows how long.
A small sample of the battle items include...
Pay rates (no band system!), Min guarantee, duty rigs, 401k increase, agency shop, etc, etc, etc
Each one of these is a an opportunity for delay. Even the best case scenario of the company caving one issue at a time can take a long time. 3 months to agree on 401k, another 2 months on a daily rig, pay rates still looming, agency shop still not touched....
All the while, the FAA is crawling up the company's a$s, emergency landings are a weekly event and host of truly systemic issues continue to eat away at the airline like cancer. Also, during this time the pilot turnover re-populates the bottom half of the seniority list with 'cautiously optimistic' pilots who think (and post here) about managements chance of stance and hope for the future and how it's better than their old regional.
Read this as - pilots who devalue your "NO" vote "weapon" in and through their willingness to give the process time. Are they likely to vote for a payscale that tops at $175/$125 and get 'em next time on the myriad of other items that make a pilot career valuable? I think you know the answer.
This is the game. Open your eyes. I know a lot of good guys and girls at Allegiant who deserve better. You guys are exposed to a higher risk flight environment than the typical legacy pilot and arguably deserve a higher total compensation level because of it. The company can certainly afford it.
Your unity is your leverage, but you need to wield the stick! The industry is marching forward, but it's patently incorrect to assume every time another group leapfrogs to the front that your expectations do as well. This plays right into managements strategy. They can participate in negotiating with you, knowing full well that the wider 'the expectations gap', the easier it will be to continue to slow roll in the battle phase.
The battle should be on now. Broke airplanes shouldn't fly, regardless of where they break. Tired pilots shouldn't fly. Sick pilots shouldn't fly. Open time shouldn't be your problem. Mission modes certainly aren't your problem. Anything, and I mean ANYTHING, beyond safely flying from A to B should not be your problem. A pilot group with the right mentality would collectively laugh out loud at each and every mission mode.
Stop collectively being your own worst enemies by accommodating the operation (yes, this will make your daily flying experience harder), and stop lying to yourself that sh^t magically gets better by waiting patiently for payback as other pilot groups vanish on the horizon ahead.
The slow roll is in play. See it and ask yourself what can we do now to stop it?
Just my humble 2 cents...
The real weapon was the strike threat last year and for some reason, your union thought it was a good idea to fire the one bullet in the gun the night before giving the company enough time to lawyer up and get a judge involved.
You guys are now getting slow rolled and it's painful to watch from a distance.
Token negotiation progress buys the company another year or so (maybe more) in mediation. They can "hammer away" at an agreement with you for another year or so before even touching the real deal breakers...the whole thing is a ruse. It's not good faith negotiating, but it can be kept barely above the good faith line in mediation for longer than you think.
Eventually, the battle items will be back on the table. Now reset the clock - how long did it take for negotiations to devolve from the table to the 'strike tomorrow' text? That's a good benchmark for the next stage in delay process which lasts another X # of months or years before either an agreement is reached or there is a strike that lasts God knows how long.
A small sample of the battle items include...
Pay rates (no band system!), Min guarantee, duty rigs, 401k increase, agency shop, etc, etc, etc
Each one of these is a an opportunity for delay. Even the best case scenario of the company caving one issue at a time can take a long time. 3 months to agree on 401k, another 2 months on a daily rig, pay rates still looming, agency shop still not touched....
All the while, the FAA is crawling up the company's a$s, emergency landings are a weekly event and host of truly systemic issues continue to eat away at the airline like cancer. Also, during this time the pilot turnover re-populates the bottom half of the seniority list with 'cautiously optimistic' pilots who think (and post here) about managements chance of stance and hope for the future and how it's better than their old regional.
Read this as - pilots who devalue your "NO" vote "weapon" in and through their willingness to give the process time. Are they likely to vote for a payscale that tops at $175/$125 and get 'em next time on the myriad of other items that make a pilot career valuable? I think you know the answer.
This is the game. Open your eyes. I know a lot of good guys and girls at Allegiant who deserve better. You guys are exposed to a higher risk flight environment than the typical legacy pilot and arguably deserve a higher total compensation level because of it. The company can certainly afford it.
Your unity is your leverage, but you need to wield the stick! The industry is marching forward, but it's patently incorrect to assume every time another group leapfrogs to the front that your expectations do as well. This plays right into managements strategy. They can participate in negotiating with you, knowing full well that the wider 'the expectations gap', the easier it will be to continue to slow roll in the battle phase.
The battle should be on now. Broke airplanes shouldn't fly, regardless of where they break. Tired pilots shouldn't fly. Sick pilots shouldn't fly. Open time shouldn't be your problem. Mission modes certainly aren't your problem. Anything, and I mean ANYTHING, beyond safely flying from A to B should not be your problem. A pilot group with the right mentality would collectively laugh out loud at each and every mission mode.
Stop collectively being your own worst enemies by accommodating the operation (yes, this will make your daily flying experience harder), and stop lying to yourself that sh^t magically gets better by waiting patiently for payback as other pilot groups vanish on the horizon ahead.
The slow roll is in play. See it and ask yourself what can we do now to stop it?
Just my humble 2 cents...
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