FirstClass

Yes, that's my understanding. When they actually report to class I don't know.

ysslah

Any news from yesterday's LAS pilot meeting with JB?

dawgdriver

Knowing my own reasons and some (very senior) guys who left, it boiled down to terrible, careless leadership. It never got better, only worse. Short term house of cards. Buy trashed out airplanes, contract out maintenance to lowest bidder, churn and burn employees (high turnover=cheap wages). Inexperience and associated incompetence and low morale permeates every corner of the operation. Same fast-buck basic ingredients as Valujet. Social deviants and outcasts hiring more like-minded 'yes men' into positions of authority to make lives miserable and ensure more of the same. It's no wonder it's such a mess. People leave because they lose hope and don't see a future. Too many better alternatives where careers are not threatened or jeopardized and needs are taken care of (pay, schedules, training, retirement). For some, G4 schedules outweigh the negatives but most guys that I know see (or saw) it as a stepping stone or a temporary gig good enough until a solid company calls. Shame, it held such promise and most were hopeful it would have been a career airline.

fishforfun

This is exactly why I want to leave as quick as I can. I applied and took the job with hope that it could be something great. It's looking more and more like we are all just cogs in the get rich quick scheme for Maury. Every indication you listed points to this not being a long term venture. For the sake of all the 30 something captains I fly with that are starry-eyed about being home every night I hope it lasts, but I just don't see it.

eagleatr

Last year, when I was debating about staying or leaving, my wife and I discussed the reasons I should stay at Allegiant. The only one we could come up with was being home every night. However, that turned out to not be that big of an advantage due to all the delays. I was getting home at night with everyone in bed, and sometimes having to leave in the morning with every one in bed. What's the point of being home every night if I don't get to see my family much.

The reasons for leaving ended up being pretty long, and it had a lot in common with what you were saying. The two biggest reasons I left were poor maintenance, and the fact that the operation seemed unsustainable in the long term the way it was being operated, at lease to me.

It was a harder decision to leave than what I thought it would be. After nearly 10 years there, I was comfortable, and I knew what boundaries I could push and which ones I couldn't.

I will admit having second thoughts about leaving in the first month during training at the new company. I haven't had any since then. Once I got out of training, I realized there was no real comparison between the new place and Allegiant. My life now is much, much easier. All I have to do is show up and fly. It's a really pleasant change. Plus all the time off I get now doesn't hurt either.

fishforfun

Again, in my very short time here that is exactly what I have experienced. Even bidding top 35% I could get mostly mornings but 30 min-2 hour delays were so common that anything we had planned for the afternoon was shot. I haven't spent a night in a hotel room since December but I've almost missed some very big events with the kids due to delays. And I can almost bet over nights will be coming. It's only a matter of time and if that is the only thing keeping you, that's some pretty thin ice.

9easy

At the risk of sounding like a company man, I want to add a bit of perspective...

I'm a relatively junior FO with half the month off, no reserve, and no show times before 1pm for the entire month and last month.. Making about the same as I was as a regional CA. Next year will be quite a bit more even without a contract. There are 2-4 year captains I fly with that make way more than many senior FO's at DL and WN I know.

It's all about what's important to you, and not everyone has a major blowing up their emails yet with job offers.. although that may be changing next year and I think the company has this in mind with their current/new stance towards negotiations.

CLMP

If what you say is true, then your senior FO friends are giving away a ton of trips (at least at WN). Senior FO's here don't have to try too hard to make 200k. That number is nearly impossible for an AAY CA unless they are in the training dept or whoring themselves big time.

9easy

Senior guys (FOs) I know at WN making over $170ish are usually working extra trips and gaming the system. At G4 at our current pay rates you only need to work a normal schedule (naturally that means 95 hours during the busy months) to make $170. Picking up a few extra trips or skipping vacation, or bidding VBD can push it over $170 quite easily.

tyler durden

First of all, I would not hold my breath on company negotiations and their 'new stance'. It's still the same guy, he hasn't changed his stance, believe me. They have yet to hammer out items affecting scheduling, work rules and 'soft costs'. Unless the Teamsters get REALLY flexible, I fear common ground may be hard to come by. JMO

As for 'senior Delta and Southwest FO's', not sure who you're referring to, but the guys I know (both Delta and Southwest) make far more than our most senior captains, even check airman. retirement, soft costs, duty rigs, Per diem, flexibility, medical, no comparison. It's no secret that Senior Southwest FO's have made in excess of $300,000. They easily make $180k - $200k. Wide body senior DL FOs ($185/Hr) make low 200s without breaking a sweat. I'm a senior captain and can't make that.