7576FO

There is NO CRM at AA. We have this class called HF Human Factors that started 5 years ago. It is total bunk. There show 2 little videos of someone screwing up. And then say "What factors contributed to this?"

Then they gloss over "What a Great fatigue program we have! It's the best!"

This is my 3rd airline. The other 2 had actual CRM classes. All we realyy need are some code words like: "This is an unsafe operation" which triggers ALL pilots to get on the same page quickly or take another plan of action.

Example: my last trip i'm landing FO at 4:40am. On approach into Miami I hear a tired lady controller say "ILS out of service" At that hour there is only 1 ILS operational. I tell the captain "I heard ILS OTS" He says "I didn't hear that"
I ask, can you ask?
He says, It's not on the ATIS
I ask, can you ask?
He says "NO"

I should have just keyed the mike and asked.

So now we are 15 seconds into the 30 second trend indicator on the ND (meaning we are 15 seconds form intercept with no clearance)

I say "Can you get a clearance"

The controller clears us for visual.

I say "NO LOC"

"LNAV/VNAV"

Capt says "How about APP mode"

I say "No, VNAV LNAV"

We land uneventful, but a bit of ___ and elbows.


Welcome to AA this is ONE of the many reasons we are call Sky ______'s


Please USAir Pilots pass this info on, if you have CRM at USAir we need it. Our HF class is stupid and worthless.

The HF class instructors are known COOLAID Drinkers. It's nauseating.



I will continue to pass on notes/info of what could be done better for our JBCA.

AA's problem is they have never looked to see how/what other airlines do that is an improvement or things that are better.


At AA we still wait up to 20 minutes with both engines running for Loads Takeoff numbers.

While we watch SouthWest and Delta and USAir taxi out and takeoff never waiting for numbers. Then they lecture me about fuel burn and APU usage.

7576FO

3,2,1 some pilot from AA will say "Our Fatigue lady is Great, she's the best in the Biz We stole her from Easy Jet"

If she is the best then why:
5 years ago I asked her why the turn after Quito Ecuador (Quito is 9,400' MSL
You do not sleep well there, hit or miss and then you do a turn after.

I asked her if she'd ever been? Blank stare.

1 year later same thing. Same turn
2 years later, same thing, Quito both overnights still have a turn upon return to MIA.
3 year later same thing.

This January 2013, I'm on the 777 I call her to complain about a Rocket GRU trip. I hate it, I also leave a lengthy message about Quito still having a turn.

No response.

When the new Quito airport opened in May, they got rid of the turns after RON.

Some say she got BOG as an all nighter turn form the 737 to 757 with an FB (IO-extra co-pilot)
Some will say she got GYE as an all nighter turn 767 with an FB. But the fact is they needed the 767 for Barcelona.

She has done very little.

We do have a pretty good fatigue program, but this lady has done very little.


Pilots understand fatigue, not some lady whose never flown an airplane or even been to a high altitude city.

At Quito Ecuador on the 19th floor of the Hilton Colon Hotel, I'm pretty sure you might be 10,000' msl. How would you sleep?

Mason32

Sleep?? Is be so oxygen deprived I'd probably not wake up. LOL.

EMBFlyer

From what I've seen at Airways, there is no specific CRM class. Threat and Error Management is built into everything we do. It starts from Day 2 (Day 1 is company introductions and paperwork). All around the training center, in every classroom and every briefing room, you see our TEM diagrams. We even have them in our Supplemental Binder (the binder we carry to supplement the ship sets). We were told that other airlines have used our TEM program as a model. I like it.

We wait on our numbers quite a bit, too. At some of the outstations it takes a while for them to put the numbers in so CLP (Central Load Planning) can send it out. If there are no major issues, as soon as the numbers are in the computer, the Final W/B is sent to the airplane. I waited 20+ minutes at the end of 22L in ORD last month for the ramp to put the bag numbers in. No one was answering on the radio and Dispatch and CLP couldn't get anyone on the phone. This was the middle of the afternoon in ORD. There were also 3 of us in the Block for 19 at DCA last month, all waiting on numbers. You're not alone. Normally, it's not too bad, but I have had to wait.

lolwut

Wow American sounds like it sucks.

The Drizzle

Yeesh. I haven't experienced something like that EVER in a cockpit.

80ktsClamp

TEM is the newest evolution of CRM.

DL is also very big on it. When I got hired in 2007 they were trying to catch up to CAL who was considered the leader in the industry on it. It's not a bad thing at all... each briefing since they made that push includes "the greatest known threat and its mitigation." Do they do the "Time/No-time" umbrellas for yall?

I do tend to see US and AA waiting on numbers more than any other carriers. Ya'll will get along great!

EMBFlyer

Since I'm not a 100% sure what that is, I don't think we do.

80ktsClamp

Probably basically the same stuff called different things.

People have to justify their desks, you know.

TQ Nola

7576FO, while I've flown with some real characters over the years at AA, they've been few and far between (and I was on the Bus, which had more than its share). That CA sounds like a real tool. Did you talk to Professional Standards?

Oh, and RE waiting for the numbers: we've gotten waaaay better in the last 3 or 4 years. The vast majority of the time I get mine as we're pushing. Miami has especially gotten better (they couldn't go anywhere but up). The only time in the last few months I've had to wait significantly was in Seattle (on intrabase tdy to domestic). That operation is just short of incompetent.