Not exactly. There have been a lot of numbers thrown around over the last two months. The union keeps saying we will get a 16.5 percent raise on 1/1/16. I think it is more like 13-13.5 percent because it is an average of United and Delta. Let's not assume Delta will have a raise before than because they very well may not and that is pure foolish!

So we get 3% this year, 13.5% -2016, 3% each yr until 2018 when section 6 would open again and possibly no raises until complete which based on the past can be quite a while.

Jcba proposal would be delta + 3% retro to Dec 1. Delta is currently 15% ahead. So that is 18% raise now and 3% jan 1 2015 and then 3-3.5% raise each year to 2019? That is a 21% raise for 2015 + 3% in 2016 vs 3% 2015 + 13.5% 2016. 8% difference over same timeframe. The higher pay compounds each year and that doesn't include money lost in our DC accts, 16% at these higher rates is a good chunk of money.

So unless I'm missing something we would never capture Delta + rates that everyone thinks we will and what we get in our next contract remains to be seen. How anyone can speculate something that far out especially in this business is beyond me. At this point in 2020 Delta will be getting ready to negotiating yet another contract and we will be even further behind them due to being stuck at these mou rates.

The company offer is a turd, there are two key things that if improved would be enough to sway me to a yes.

 

Using your analogy, really what happened is that Dad already made a deal with us that if we do chores 3 days a week, he will give us that $3 per week allowance, which bumps to $5 per week next year (regardless). He also promised that once he got a raise at work and made the same money as Mr. Jones (next door), he would raise our allowance to match what Mr. Jones gives his son -- $5 per week.

Now, he got the big raise, and decided not to give us the $5 per week. Instead, he will give us $6 per week. We'll be making slightly more than Jones Jr (until he gets his allowance boost). The catch is that instead of doing the same chores 3 days a week that Jones Jr. does, we will have to do chores 6 days a week for the money, and they will be much harder chores, at all hours of the day.

So, the question that needs to be asked is this -- is getting the extra money worth the extra work? Is it worth working more?

Enough analogies. Here are some cold, hard facts.

1.) Giving up the DOM/INT split bases will reduce headcount (in the form of overlapping reserves) in the LAA bases. As reserves will be available to cover both bases, they won't need as many. Thus, fewer higher paying Captain positions and fewer higher paying larger a/c. Right now, the company has to separate the LUS bases -- which means more of those positions.

2.) Giving up HBT will allow the company to go to 2 man cockpits on some of the West-bound Europe flights with a longer layover. That means fewer of the higher-paying wide-body positions. That means less money. It also means more days of work since we do not have trip rig/min day pay. A 4-day Europe will cost the same as a 3-day Europe trip. More time away for the same money. Fewer days to pickup time = less money. Will they do it? Who knows. But it is certainly a possibility...

3.) The midnight sims -- I keep hearing that "who cares, it's just 3 bounces." You do realize that the OTD syllabus calls for a full 4 hours on those, and it includes a LOFT leg to an RNAV approach, a V1 Cut to a single engine ILS/Landing, and a Rejected T/O, right? It also specifically states that any extra time is to be used for things like Windshear, EGPWS, TCAS, etc. I hear "but it is not jeopardy" all the time. True, in the sense that it is not a one-time pass/fail event. However, if you do anything and it does not meet standards, you MUST retrain it until it meets standards. If you run out of time, you are de-qualled (without pay) until they can get you back in to fix the item that went bad. Sounds like jeopardy to me... Do you really want to jump in the box in the middle of the night and do all those things (with no warm up), having not flown in nearly 3 months? That sounds like a cost to me.

You mentioned making a rational decision -- I agree. We have to take a look at all the aspects of it. We need a real, honest accounting of what the offer is, what it will cost us, and how that measures up to what they offer us. But, be completely honest with yourself when you make that decision (after all, you're the only one you need to convince). Don't just look at the payscales, but consider all of it...

 

If Parker was truly being generous he would give us the Delta pay without any stipulations. But, he's not. No surprise. Just say "no". Send it to arbitration.

 

Andy Andy Andy- you are not bad you are correct

 

OTD is not the same as the landing currency sim, at least not on the LAA side.

And going to $5 per week allowance is not correct. More like going to $4.50 per week. And the follow-on raises compound that amount which only widens the gap. The "extra year" also gives us a pay raise as well, whereas the MTA raises end in 2018. We may or may not see a raise in 2019 with the MTA.

HBT and combined ops could be made up for with min calendar day. I've heard rumors that the company has considered it but we'll see. They want to operate us like Delta and United. If they want those efficiencies, we need to get paid for our time on the road, not just sitting in the seat.

 

Now Parker is proposing more Group 1 pay concessions.

Sounds like there is a plan to put many of our present and future pilots into Group 1. So much for that fat pay raise.......yet another scheme to steal it all back.

 

190 Pay 28% below jetBlue.

 

He'll slip a lot of pilots a bribe today, he'll grift back from them tomorrow.....or, "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today".

Could be just a red herring to retract later to make himself look better when offering a "comprehensive LBFO", but more likely since few will be showing up to fly E-175's in the future, he'll need RJ pilots at mainline.

We all should recognize the hiss of this snake.

 

If they can get the pay low enough they want to buy a hundred of them.

 

Delta contract has 190 rates and they top out at $139.42 for a 12 yr captain. Under company offer ours would be $143 which is 3% more than delta and roughly 65% of proposed group ii. Looks like delta came up short here as well.

United came up short on 190 pay too as they only max out at $143 for 12 year ca and that is in 2017. Current 2015 rates are around $131 for 12 year ca.

I guarantee Union knew this all along it really isn't a surprise since all I keep hearing is delta plus a certain amount and that is exactly what they got.