You are discussing two issues here.

If you wonder why the SIG does what it does, e-mail or arrange for them to call you. They will do it. You can't possibly know all the ins and outs of what is happening from the contract verbiage or from the SIG notes. For one, the SIG notes have to go thru the company lawyers and the ALPA lawyers before they get published. Two, you don't know the background or what sort of interaction there is between the players involved. Every dispute has to be justified. And, yes, it may not survive the DP process and you may be proven right that it shouldn't be disputed. In that case it will eventually come back to the membership.

The second issue is whether you should do a DP just because others are doing it. It frustrates you to avoid a trip, and the pay, just to see someone pick it up as if everyone left it in open time just for him. It's natural to justify becoming one of those guys. If others are doing it must be o.k., right? Our competitive nature kicks in. But, no, it's not o.k. It won't be no matter how many do it.

My recommendation--if you disagree with the SIG, wait for it to become non-disputed. It will only take 3 months for it to leave the DP program to get back onto a line so you can bid it.

If it never gets on a line, it means the DP process worked and it was revised into an even better pairing (assuming you liked the DP in question). The key is to be patient. You will get to fly it eventually.


For those of you frustrated that DP flyers are never disciplined or slammed--So what. They are few. It's like being angry that there are thieves and adulterers running around scot-free. Does that mean you should go out and become one of those??

 

I'm not on the MD-11, nor ever have been, but I don't think anyone is going to call in fatigued for the CDG-MAN/STN-MEM flight. You're not going to get fatigued going to MAN/STN from CDG. The fatigue will set in some time over the Atlantic on the second leg. A little late to call in fatigued then. It's best to have the leg fixed through the DP process, if everyone would just stop picking it up.

 

I am in complete agreement with bluejuice and Gunter. That said, I have previously questioned the rationale the Sig uses in the DP process and expect my union to be proactive in educating its membership--I continue to be disappointed. Every month we collectively get spun up and ****ed off about DPs and yet our leadership is apparently happy with the status quo. Obviously, my expectations are way too high. Once again I strongly disagree that to be a good union member I have to march in lockstep fashion like the good Nazis that some of us here apparently think we are.

 

Holy crap Moses, "like the good Nazis"? Our volunteers that work for the SIG try and do their best to try and improve our lives by singling out pairings that make our lives more difficult and have to work with the our contract, FAR's, etc. to do this. They all have to agree on parameters they feel do this and highlight these pairings to the best of their ability. Unless they have dissenting views within their group on what these parameters are these pairings will continue to be what they are. Simply complaining about these trips and rationalizing why one should fly it while the majority of pilots choose to believe they are doing their jobs is wrong.
I agree that the MAN/STN leg is not that fatiguing and that the rest of the trip is awesome but we need to understand that by allowing the company to use an RFO to simply extend a duty day to include an additional leg will lead to this becoming a norm. For example, ANC pilots would be flying from ANC to and Asia location then continuing on to another city every time they took off and then the same in reverse. This would be brutal. We need to look at the big picture and just because we think that one leg is not that bad doesn't make it ok to fly it.
Three months of us NOT volunteering for such a pairing would eliminate it from the schedule, add a layover, and add to more flying and pay for us all. This in my opinion would greatly improve our quality of life.
If one of us truly feels that the decisions the hard working volunteers in the SIG are wrong then they should volunteer themselves to work with SIG and make their opinions heard. Complaining here on this forum then flying the disputed pairings will do nothing to improve the lives of us all.

 

CaptainGator, my comments were no way intended to impinge the members of the SIG in any way. My good Nazi comment was intended for those on this forum who continue to question the character, integrity, ethics, or intelligence of those of us who do not agree with their narrow black & white opinion.

 

Looks like after the union email, people went on a DP feeding frenzy. Our last MD-11/FO DP was just assigned to a R-24 guy three days early!

 

Bandit, Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate it but it was not necessary. I totally understand your reference to Nazi's and marching in lock-step. I too agree that taking a "black and white" view of things is naive but in some cases is simply the only way we can express our views in light of this situation. Unless we are willing to get involved in this process we are just complaining and doing nothing to remedy what we feel is incorrect. Until then we have to trust those that are working to try and improve our quality of life and comply with their recommendations (by the way, I am in not working with the SIG). The big picture is that by flying these disputed pairings we are NOT showing unity with our brothers and that in the long run will show the "management" that we are not unified but fractional. This will lead to our having less strength in the next round of negotiations. ONLY by "marching in lockstep" will we be able to show the management that we are a force to deal with and reap the benefits in future negotiations. It's a long term effort and every little step we take will reap huge benefits for our future. I too am unhappy with a lot of what has happened recently with some of our unions decisions but I am not involved in those decisions and until I do get involved I have to trust that they are looking out for our best interests.
NOT flying disputed pairings for a few short months will improve all of our lives for our careers. That would be good for union members and non union member alike. Unity and strength in numbers is the KEY!
Fly safe.

 

ANC X pairing 2101/11APR is the first half of disputed pairing 91/11APR.

 

It was assigned to a reserve Captain. So what? Looks like the "system" worked, this time.

 

I was just pointing out that it was part of a disputed pairing while it was hanging out in open time. I'm glad the system worked, just didn't want any "really good guys" accidentally making an error.