BlaneO

I totally get the mistrust of our management team and the numbers they generate, but our MEC has basically taken a "we won't agree to anything because we don't trust you" approach. I'm actually surprised they actually negotiated a "voluntary only" proposal.

Here's how I see this LOA - if you don't like it, don't volunteer. If mgt screws with the implementation, we pull it down. In any case we save 200 more jobs without any skin off our back. Is there uncertainty? Yes, but no one knows what's going to happen next week, let alone next year, so if you're looking for absolute certainties and iron-clad projection numbers you are not going to get it.

The bottom line is there is not enough flying for the pilots on the payroll. That's not our fault, and that's not management's fault. But we both have to deal with it. Mgt has a dollar figure they need to get to. They will never share that with us, just like we wouldn't share it with them. They will get to it one way or another. A voluntary program that gets us both closer to that number seems like an easy Yes to me.

Denny Crane

I’ll complete your point: until January 1, 2021.....

After that we don’t know how many jobs are saved because there are no metrics to determine the amount.

Denny

D B Cooper

Did you sign up for the VEOP because you wanted to save a furlough? Or was it because it was the best decision for you and your family? You had no knowledge of how many people would be saved from furlough by signing up.

TransWorld

So, what is going rate these days? I’m out of the loop. I just say how about you not cook tonight, let’s order in a pizza. All it takes.

And “gate laid”. 🤪

Phins2right

Allow me to interject.

First, the company has good specificity on the manning required for summer 2021 flying. We don't have that information, and they will not provide it to us.

Speaking for myself, as a non-socialist, I: 1)took the VEOP because it worked for me and my family and 2)I thought it would prevent some folks from losing a job. How many? I had know idea.

FF>>>> The company did not expect the take rate we had for the VEOP. Thus the ~600 saved from furlough. Personally I think the company is blowing smoke and we may need to furlough about 1000. I always thought the 2558 was poker play. I think the 1941 is poker play as well. That's for later discussion.

The fact is we had a pretty decent VEOP offer and many decided to take it at a rate higher than company expected. So I would like to ask you, why did you ask Denny that question?

Gone Flying

i think his point was no one thought twice about the VEOP not having a number of pilots saved tied to it being accepted, so why the hang up on this LOA?

Personally I would like to see the ULC be a permanent change and have a metric like: if a category will have over 20% reserve staffing for a month, ULC lines shall be offered on at least half the reserve lines above 20%. If a category has 200 pilots and 60 (30%) will be on reserve, no reason 10 (half the staffing above 20%) of those can’t be long call. The difference between a 12 hr callout and a 24 hr callout could be huge for many pilots.

Denny Crane

There was no one reason. It was a combination of factors two of which you mention.

You are correct about the no metric for the VEOP. There should have been. Are you saying I shouldn’t have taken it because of no metric?

The big difference here is the memrat of LOA 20-03 and not of the VEOP let alone the company is only required to keep the 220 for an extra month. The 600 from the VEOP currently have no such restrictions.

Denny

Edit: Thinking about it, there should have been a metic tied to the VEOP. Problem is we didn’t get to vote on it like we do now.

Gone Flying

Denny,

the 617 saved from the VEOP had absolutely 0 contractual protection as far as I’m aware. The 220 at least have a job through New Years if we ratify LOA 20-03. There is nothing requiring the company to furlough those 220 pilots in January. If in January the company decides to cut pilots, the 220 are just as exposed as the 600 above them.

just my $.02

Denny Crane

Im just giving my opinion. If we agree to this letter there is nothing stopping the company from furloughing those 220 January 1. I would just like to see it codified as to exactly how many will be saved and for how long.

Having taken the VEOP and getting a later date, it’s really no skin off my nose anymore.

Denny

Gone Flying

I completely agree in principle, I’m just not sure that is an option. If the choice is take this LOA or not, I think taking it is better than not. I can respect why you and others disagree and I can see your logic, I just disagree that we need to kill this LOA over it.

too bad the company waited til the 2 minute warning in the 4th to actually talk to us. How much could have been saved by them if we had this ironed out in August