sailingfun

You just posted all the reason a reduced ALV works better than any other option for the company. It probably in the end would have been the best option for us also.

rickair7777

Yup. It became apparent in May/Jun that nobody really knows how this play out when AA and SWA initially announced very different approaches to capacity than DL, UA, and the rest. The top seven or so have access to the best economists and modellers money can buy, and nobody could come up with a consistent story.

D B Cooper

No my point was simply that the lack of metrics wasn't a factor in your decision. I understand what your saying about the 220 and Jan 1st. However, the company can furlough the 600 whenever they want there was never such a requirement to keep any saved from the VEOP.

Scoop

I do not mind the ALV reduction, because like you I believe that it is totally 100% self correcting with zero effort on our part. I actually like the idea of working less vice working for less. I like a 90+ hour month as much as the next guy but I feel sorry for the guys that need 90+ hours each and every month.

I have always said my issue is that I do not trust our management team. That is the show stopper in my mind and I don't see a good way around it. Our management team has slowly and inexorably over the years eroded trust with the Pilot group. In my mind it is something they have accepted as a price to help prevent the non-contract employees from organizing but either way they have done nothing to make me feel otherwise.

The just say No crowd at DALPA have contributed somewhat to our current situation, but to me that is mainly a byproduct and enabled by managements behavior. There are win-wins out there, but it would take a huge leap of faith on the part of the Pilot group to achieve them and that faith is currently non-existent.

Scoop

tunes

but it wasn't working less for reserve pilots. It has been published that they wanted the same number of on call days with the reduced ALV.

A perfect example of a win-win. The mil leave provision in 20-03. It could have been implemented by the company months ago, and can even be implemented tomorrow (no part of it requires MEC/pilot group approval)...yet they choose not too.

Gone Flying

where was this published? Was it in a MEC update? If so that’s BS on the company’s part. JetBlue dropped their reserve guarantee down to equal line guarantee (5 hr reduction) and got 2 extra days off for it. (15 days on call for SC, 16 for LC)

sailingfun

I can’t argue with anything in your post. It’s also probably to late now from a pilot perspective to get the most benefit of a ALV reduction because the displacements are simply to far along. If in June the union had put out a good analysis of how various options might effect the pilot group including how displacements would reduce income, support for a ALV reduction might have been strong. It also would have positioned the company to respond quickly to market changes which benefits the pilots with increased growth and a quicker return of profits.
The impression I get is the unions plan was similar to Trumps. The virus would just go away. It didn’t and it’s not going away. As a result both the company and the union are seeing a worse outcome. Let’s hope it does not become terminal. This is starting to remind me of 911. We entered that crises as possibly the best positioned airline yet in the end came closest to not surviving.

notEnuf

I'm already working less. I looked at my 12 month average in February. 89 credit with 7 months regular line and 5 months reserve. Normal vacation time, CQ and a few days of GSs. I'm now planning 72 on minimum reserve for the foreseeable future. That is a 20% reduction. I haven't even mentioned PS or the fact that many pilots are still displacing to a lower paying seat. The fact is management has lost so much trust with me that I don't even believe their numbers. They will not give a cost target or metrics for how the reductions will be applied to a target. 2558 was based on the furlough protection in the PWA, nothing more. 1941 was just a convenient number that was still substantial but allowed for some further reduction while still maintaining a significant number for leverage. 1721 is again a trigger number for furlough pay FM in the PWA. The total lack of transparency and their financial moves make me believe the cost target for flight ops is a random WAG for a long term recovery. If things go better than the WAG, management gets to play good guy and "save" people. All of this is crisis based manufactured leverage, nothing more. They will furlough based on need and nothing we agree to will change that.

theUpsideDown

So is it fair to say you believe this is the unions fault? Or is the above suppose to indicate both sides take a share of the blame?

sailingfun

Both sides share the blame. The current MEC is a Frankenstein but it’s managements creation.