35 Large RJs coming back?
#351
US Airways pilots flowed to several regionals.
Your company is still on Cares 3.0 payroll protection for at least the next 7 paychecks.
It’s a crap deal because the government will have protected 32 paychecks, and DALPA will need to keep spending negotiating capital on furlough mitigation so you can keep not utilizing this deal.
At some point it’s likely DALPA will quit spending capital on furlough mitigation each contract cycle, and bank the savings.
I am sure DAL would be open to a different agreement if it was cost neutral.
Sounds like many are just upset they cannot sell the same scope to the same company twice.
Your company is still on Cares 3.0 payroll protection for at least the next 7 paychecks.
It’s a crap deal because the government will have protected 32 paychecks, and DALPA will need to keep spending negotiating capital on furlough mitigation so you can keep not utilizing this deal.
At some point it’s likely DALPA will quit spending capital on furlough mitigation each contract cycle, and bank the savings.
I am sure DAL would be open to a different agreement if it was cost neutral.
Sounds like many are just upset they cannot sell the same scope to the same company twice.
#352
On Reserve
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 108
Likes: 8
The point of a flow down is not really to be used, but to mitigate furloughs by making them expensive. With no flow Delta furloughs an FO and has one training event when they recall the FO. With a flow to a wholly owned if they furlough the FO they are training that FO as a captain on a new air frame, putting the regional captain through downgrade, and dequaling an FO. Once the mainline FO is recalled they have to do the same process in reverse. Instead of one or two (if they downgrade a captain to fill the mainline FO spot) training events they are now looking at 6 to 8.
#353
The point of a flow down is not really to be used, but to mitigate furloughs by making them expensive. With no flow Delta furloughs an FO and has one training event when they recall the FO. With a flow to a wholly owned if they furlough the FO they are training that FO as a captain on a new air frame, putting the regional captain through downgrade, and dequaling an FO. Once the mainline FO is recalled they have to do the same process in reverse. Instead of one or two (if they downgrade a captain to fill the mainline FO spot) training events they are now looking at 6 to 8.
#354
On Reserve
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
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Just to set the record straight, because lord knows what we need are more conspiracy theories, the SSP was handed to us after we fought back successfully against a 50% paycut. You can squint and call it 30%, but that's only if you ignore every FO over the 4 year mark pay being froze or cut and retrograded. The NY bankruptcy court judge told Pinnacle management at the time, they hadn't done anything except demand a pay cut lower than Gojets and the court of NY wouldn't be responsible for a race to the bottom. Delta stepped in when it was clear Pinnacle leadership was dangerously close to a negotiating in bad faith decision by the judge. To this day, that's the closest anyone in that group came to bad faith bargaining. Shortly after we had a very traditional bankruptcy style negotiation, which for Mesaba guys (the leaders and adults in the union leadership) was an old hat. We learned a lot during the first bankruptcy. Not really the first but the first for the leadership.
Just to set the record straight, because lord knows what we need are more conspiracy theories, the SSP was handed to us after we fought back successfully against a 50% paycut. You can squint and call it 30%, but that's only if you ignore every FO over the 4 year mark pay being froze or cut and retrograded. The NY bankruptcy court judge told Pinnacle management at the time, they hadn't done anything except demand a pay cut lower than Gojets and the court of NY wouldn't be responsible for a race to the bottom. Delta stepped in when it was clear Pinnacle leadership was dangerously close to a negotiating in bad faith decision by the judge. To this day, that's the closest anyone in that group came to bad faith bargaining. Shortly after we had a very traditional bankruptcy style negotiation, which for Mesaba guys (the leaders and adults in the union leadership) was an old hat. We learned a lot during the first bankruptcy. Not really the first but the first for the leadership.
#355
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,058
Likes: 2
From: Capt
may have been that the NWA pilots weren’t too impressed with the 9E proposal to staple the Mesaba pilots for their SLI proposal. Of course, when you take into account who the presenter was....I digress.
#356
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,902
Likes: 91
Ohhhh JH, what a dismal failure. It was clear JH had no idea what he was doing and the pinnacle MEC chose him because he talked tough. Ive heard the decision to air out all the stupid proposed by Pinnacle made JH so angry and ashamed he first challenged and then begged the arbitrator to change his mind. A fact not lost on the arbitrator when it turned out JH never did his job maintaining the seniority list.
#357
This took me WAY back to my days/years at Pinnacle... HA! Reminds me how much better the Mesaba peeps thought they were than Pinnacle! It also reminds me how almost ZERO NWA pilots even knew who Pinnacle was, even when we were doing 70% of their regional flying out of Detroit. It always blew my mind how out of touch they were with who was doing THEIR flying!
#358
#359
I had a captain argue with me because I had mentioned some furloughed pilots (we had nearly 800+ furloughed at the time). He said we didn't have anyone on furlough and I was full of $4!t (which I am, but wasn't on this particular topic). We went round and round for about 15 minutes, but his final argument was that he hadn't heard about it and his buddy in the chief pilots office would have told him. I ran into him a few weeks later, and he comes up and says "you know what? You were right!", like that made my life complete or something.
Point is, a lot of pilots view this job through a very narrow lens. Unless it impacts them directly, they don't know, and don't want to know. ALPA updates get tossed and company memos ignored until CQ. I wish my personality and/or the industry in general let me tiptoe through life like that, but they're not.
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