35 Large RJs coming back?
05-18-2021 | 06:58 PM
#451
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 6,538
Likes: 281
From: Sitting SC at the Five Towns
Unless you are 20+ miles out flaps 5 240kts is not that inefficient and retracting the flaps in the approach environment on a slick wing plane like the 73 doesn't sound optimal. All this does fall into the realm of technique and is trivial. Enough that I wouldnt say anything unless it was absurd like 40 miles out.
By your logic we should rewrite our whole flap retraction procedure on initial climb. Slick wing and all.
Since we are on the topic of inefficiency, verbally verifying the WDR when both pilots clearly can read it silently and independently is what I call terribly inefficient
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By your logic we should rewrite our whole flap retraction procedure on initial climb. Slick wing and all.
Since we are on the topic of inefficiency, verbally verifying the WDR when both pilots clearly can read it silently and independently is what I call terribly inefficient
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As far as the WDR analysis is concerned, I’m onboard with independent and silent analysis. And since you raised the issue I’m happy to see the fleet leadership has toned down the “dwell time,” admonishments and emphasized slow and careful analysis prior to taxi — as evidenced in a recent fleet newsletter.
05-18-2021 | 07:09 PM
#452
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 630
Likes: 80
Answer* It’s not. But we do get flow back yippee. Except in reality management would just liquidate them and then furlough us anyways during the next downturn.
Side note- As a former 9E, I implore them to realize that any Scope losses at Delta are very bad. Most people I know there are more than capable of passing the DGI that now exists. Seriously, I spent 4 years at 9E and plan to spend 34 at Delta. If you’re reading this as an Endeavor pilot, ask yourself “Do I want to flow after a longer wait to be a Delta pilot where there’s less flying done by mainline. Or do I want to interview, succeed and then get hired wayyy sooner as a Delta pilot with more flying done in house?”
Side note- As a former 9E, I implore them to realize that any Scope losses at Delta are very bad. Most people I know there are more than capable of passing the DGI that now exists. Seriously, I spent 4 years at 9E and plan to spend 34 at Delta. If you’re reading this as an Endeavor pilot, ask yourself “Do I want to flow after a longer wait to be a Delta pilot where there’s less flying done by mainline. Or do I want to interview, succeed and then get hired wayyy sooner as a Delta pilot with more flying done in house?”
DALPA better pull their heads out of their asses and put their foot down on this issue. If you let them get away with this—it’s a MAJOR loss for us. I don’t care about flow. Flow them all day long. I’d love to see their entire pilot group here. They can come here and fly the 35 RJs. That would be a step in the right direction. DO NOT TIE OUR SCOPE TO FLOW AT ENDEAVOR.
If they don’t take the deal on their end. Delta will offer it to Skywest. Someone is gonna take it. I don’t have ill will towards 9E pilots or their MEC. I think this is a new low for our management team, and DALPA’s response here is critical.
Write your reps. That’s all I have to say on this front. I’ll be going for maximum screwage on my Covid shots/NFLY and won’t feel one bit bad about it.
Back to your “what’s the best time to put flaps out” conversation avgeeks.
05-18-2021 | 07:10 PM
#453
Line Holder
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 0
From: The Parlor
Do you really think that flying 10 knots below the placard speed is not inefficient? What’s the point? Do you really think a 737 is going to fall out of the sky because you don’t have Flaps 5 in the terminal environment? I routinely wait until 10 knots above the min speed before selecting the next flap setting. All it takes is a gust to put you into the clacker. And a flap overspeed is a lot bigger deal than exceeding Mmo in cruise.
As far as the WDR analysis is concerned, I’m onboard with independent and silent analysis. And since you raised the issue I’m happy to see the fleet leadership has toned down the “dwell time,” admonishments and emphasized slow and careful analysis prior to taxi — as evidenced in a recent fleet newsletter.
As far as the WDR analysis is concerned, I’m onboard with independent and silent analysis. And since you raised the issue I’m happy to see the fleet leadership has toned down the “dwell time,” admonishments and emphasized slow and careful analysis prior to taxi — as evidenced in a recent fleet newsletter.
Some of you make this job so damn hard.
Is the PF gonna get you in trouble (procedurally/regulatory)? Is he gonna kill you? No? STHU and if you don’t like it you can follow through on your threat and fly every damn leg.
Anyways how about these RJs?
05-18-2021 | 07:20 PM
#454
On Reserve
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 108
Likes: 8
They will choose option A… because the mantra at the regional airlines are “get on a mainline seniority list at all costs.” This isn’t their problem, this is our problem. And we have a couple nerds on this thread talking about when to put flaps out.
DALPA better pull their heads out of their asses and put their foot down on this issue. If you let them get away with this—it’s a MAJOR loss for us. I don’t care about flow. Flow them all day long. I’d love to see their entire pilot group here. They can come here and fly the 35 RJs. That would be a step in the right direction. DO NOT TIE OUR SCOPE TO FLOW AT ENDEAVOR.
If they don’t take the deal on their end. Delta will offer it to Skywest. Someone is gonna take it. I don’t have ill will towards 9E pilots or their MEC. I think this is a new low for our management team, and DALPA’s response here is critical.
Write your reps. That’s all I have to say on this front. I’ll be going for maximum screwage on my Covid shots/NFLY and won’t feel one bit bad about it.
Back to your “what’s the best time to put flaps out” conversation avgeeks.
DALPA better pull their heads out of their asses and put their foot down on this issue. If you let them get away with this—it’s a MAJOR loss for us. I don’t care about flow. Flow them all day long. I’d love to see their entire pilot group here. They can come here and fly the 35 RJs. That would be a step in the right direction. DO NOT TIE OUR SCOPE TO FLOW AT ENDEAVOR.
If they don’t take the deal on their end. Delta will offer it to Skywest. Someone is gonna take it. I don’t have ill will towards 9E pilots or their MEC. I think this is a new low for our management team, and DALPA’s response here is critical.
Write your reps. That’s all I have to say on this front. I’ll be going for maximum screwage on my Covid shots/NFLY and won’t feel one bit bad about it.
Back to your “what’s the best time to put flaps out” conversation avgeeks.
05-18-2021 | 07:31 PM
#455
Banned
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 459
Likes: 0
I'm gonna throw this out here and take it as you will.
Please don't hold this against Endeavor pilots. I can promise you that your management most certainly put a deal on the table and there was little "negotiating" from our MEC. We have zero power to tell DL how it is so I highly doubt we influenced much.
None of the 9E group wants to take away from your scope and all of you are exactly right, we won't get a single new plane from this deal. It's possible some of our parked 900s may come back but we all know 170/175s will go to Skywest and Republic.
If you ask me, I'd rather just fly a 200 on property at Delta until the opportunity to move up to a different fleet was available.
And just for perspective, I'm a Captain at 9E that was weeks away from my DL interview pre-covid. My "flow" would be 2-3 years at best. Not something I want to sit around and wait for.
Please don't hold this against Endeavor pilots. I can promise you that your management most certainly put a deal on the table and there was little "negotiating" from our MEC. We have zero power to tell DL how it is so I highly doubt we influenced much.
None of the 9E group wants to take away from your scope and all of you are exactly right, we won't get a single new plane from this deal. It's possible some of our parked 900s may come back but we all know 170/175s will go to Skywest and Republic.
If you ask me, I'd rather just fly a 200 on property at Delta until the opportunity to move up to a different fleet was available.
And just for perspective, I'm a Captain at 9E that was weeks away from my DL interview pre-covid. My "flow" would be 2-3 years at best. Not something I want to sit around and wait for.
Now RPA might have done the deal.
I would have rather seen a “stapled” EDV list than watch our scope get torn up again. I’ll say it again congratulations to delta management for FINESSING two pilot groups. We just lost our scope, and the EDV pilots just took massive concessions for a damn carrot.
CONGRATULATIONS
Last edited by Finessed; 05-18-2021 at 07:42 PM.
05-18-2021 | 08:16 PM
#457
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
I'm gonna throw this out here and take it as you will.
Please don't hold this against Endeavor pilots. I can promise you that your management most certainly put a deal on the table and there was little "negotiating" from our MEC. We have zero power to tell DL how it is so I highly doubt we influenced much.
None of the 9E group wants to take away from your scope and all of you are exactly right, we won't get a single new plane from this deal. It's possible some of our parked 900s may come back but we all know 170/175s will go to Skywest and Republic.
If you ask me, I'd rather just fly a 200 on property at Delta until the opportunity to move up to a different fleet was available.
And just for perspective, I'm a Captain at 9E that was weeks away from my DL interview pre-covid. My "flow" would be 2-3 years at best. Not something I want to sit around and wait for.
Please don't hold this against Endeavor pilots. I can promise you that your management most certainly put a deal on the table and there was little "negotiating" from our MEC. We have zero power to tell DL how it is so I highly doubt we influenced much.
None of the 9E group wants to take away from your scope and all of you are exactly right, we won't get a single new plane from this deal. It's possible some of our parked 900s may come back but we all know 170/175s will go to Skywest and Republic.
If you ask me, I'd rather just fly a 200 on property at Delta until the opportunity to move up to a different fleet was available.
And just for perspective, I'm a Captain at 9E that was weeks away from my DL interview pre-covid. My "flow" would be 2-3 years at best. Not something I want to sit around and wait for.
Chances are you would’ve failed the DGI anyway.
05-18-2021 | 09:10 PM
#459
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 449
Likes: 3
Answer* It’s not. But we do get flow back yippee. Except in reality management would just liquidate them and then furlough us anyways during the next downturn.
Side note- As a former 9E, I implore them to realize that any Scope losses at Delta are very bad. Most people I know there are more than capable of passing the DGI that now exists. Seriously, I spent 4 years at 9E and plan to spend 34 at Delta. If you’re reading this as an Endeavor pilot, ask yourself “Do I want to flow after a longer wait to be a Delta pilot where there’s less flying done by mainline. Or do I want to interview, succeed and then get hired wayyy sooner as a Delta pilot with more flying done in house?”
Side note- As a former 9E, I implore them to realize that any Scope losses at Delta are very bad. Most people I know there are more than capable of passing the DGI that now exists. Seriously, I spent 4 years at 9E and plan to spend 34 at Delta. If you’re reading this as an Endeavor pilot, ask yourself “Do I want to flow after a longer wait to be a Delta pilot where there’s less flying done by mainline. Or do I want to interview, succeed and then get hired wayyy sooner as a Delta pilot with more flying done in house?”
That said, I don’t like this being tied to scope. I wish it was on its own merits. I am a fairly JR FO and I will be at least 5-6 years to flow. I won’t be waiting. AA, UL, B6, or whoever calls first is where I’ll go. And if that doesn’t work, great, I’ll see you in 6 years. So yes, please fight it. But don’t fight it far enough that you get nothing and it happens anyway (arbitration) Negotiate something that is value add for the entire pilot group. I don’t know what that is, but make DL give you something more than a flowback that will never be used. And don’t hold this against 9E pilots. There really was no option but to take the deal.
05-18-2021 | 09:26 PM
#460
Banned
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 459
Likes: 0
Sorry. But you’re wrong. As a former 9E guy, you should also realize that DGI isn’t contractual and they could pull it at any time. So DL offers 9E flow, and 9E declines, OO or YX get it instead AND 9E loses DGI. Yeah. Great deal for 9E.
That said, I don’t like this being tied to scope. I wish it was on its own merits. I am a fairly JR FO and I will be at least 5-6 years to flow. I won’t be waiting. AA, UL, B6, or whoever calls first is where I’ll go. And if that doesn’t work, great, I’ll see you in 6 years. So yes, please fight it. But don’t fight it far enough that you get nothing and it happens anyway (arbitration) Negotiate something that is value add for the entire pilot group. I don’t know what that is, but make DL give you something more than a flowback that will never be used. And don’t hold this against 9E pilots. There really was no option but to take the deal.
That said, I don’t like this being tied to scope. I wish it was on its own merits. I am a fairly JR FO and I will be at least 5-6 years to flow. I won’t be waiting. AA, UL, B6, or whoever calls first is where I’ll go. And if that doesn’t work, great, I’ll see you in 6 years. So yes, please fight it. But don’t fight it far enough that you get nothing and it happens anyway (arbitration) Negotiate something that is value add for the entire pilot group. I don’t know what that is, but make DL give you something more than a flowback that will never be used. And don’t hold this against 9E pilots. There really was no option but to take the deal.
You were offered a flow for concessions on pay so Delta management could **** us over on scope ONCE AGAIN. I doubt your MEC said anything except “yes sir, where do I sign sir”.
This is a farce.
Last edited by Finessed; 05-18-2021 at 09:58 PM.
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