Reserve for Dummies
03-17-2026 | 08:39 PM
#4921
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2024
Posts: 391
Likes: 75
If you thought I was done, I'm not quite.
Back to SRH example #6. Assume RES pilot. L9 is triggered because "not scheduled to release within four hours of the scheduled release of the last duty period".
Ok, so now we have to consider duty periods.
Clearly Day 5 pays L9. We agree.
But what if Day 4 duty period then DELAYS into the X-day? L9 was already triggered because Day 5 scheduled >4 hours.
I don't see any language controlling duty-period specific "scheduled" times. I only see the word "scheduled" as it pertains to the release of the last duty period (day 5) triggering L9.
I believe that, if you take example #6 in the SRH, and it's a RES pilot, and day 4 delays past midnight, that day 4 pays L9 (in addition to day 5.) Because the "scheduled" release was already past >4 hours, and now you have to consider any and all duty periods that touch X-days. Just as you would REG pilots that touch "off" days.
Back to SRH example #6. Assume RES pilot. L9 is triggered because "not scheduled to release within four hours of the scheduled release of the last duty period".
Ok, so now we have to consider duty periods.
Clearly Day 5 pays L9. We agree.
But what if Day 4 duty period then DELAYS into the X-day? L9 was already triggered because Day 5 scheduled >4 hours.
I don't see any language controlling duty-period specific "scheduled" times. I only see the word "scheduled" as it pertains to the release of the last duty period (day 5) triggering L9.
I believe that, if you take example #6 in the SRH, and it's a RES pilot, and day 4 delays past midnight, that day 4 pays L9 (in addition to day 5.) Because the "scheduled" release was already past >4 hours, and now you have to consider any and all duty periods that touch X-days. Just as you would REG pilots that touch "off" days.
The L9 trigger is two-fold. Reroute scheduled to release >4 hours late AND interrupt an X day. Without both, there is no L9.
The L8 trigger is single. Reroute scheduled to release >4 hours.
Here’s a different example to help: RES on a 3-day GS all on X days. The last duty period is rerouted, say swapping a penalty lap for a layover at another location. The next day is a LC day (rerouted into the LC day). This duty period is scheduled to release > 4 hours late. L9 is paid for the original last duty period. It is not paid for the new last duty period AND it is not paid for the trip credit (TRP, MCD, ADG), as the final duty period DOES NOT INFRINGE on an X day.
03-18-2026 | 02:59 AM
#4922
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 480
Likes: 66
A curiosity of mine is that as someone relatively new here, L8/L9 has been around for a long time, and L4 is new in C2019. Yet L4 is waaaay easier to calculate. L4 is also a lot more common.
I'm both surprised that there are not more L8/L9 guru's out there given it's been around a lot longer, and also not surprised since it's more rare (the whole >4 hours thing.) The language around L8/L9 is also more ambiguous (as evidenced by these last few pages.)
Thank you, DALPA, for 23.L.4.
I'm both surprised that there are not more L8/L9 guru's out there given it's been around a lot longer, and also not surprised since it's more rare (the whole >4 hours thing.) The language around L8/L9 is also more ambiguous (as evidenced by these last few pages.)
Thank you, DALPA, for 23.L.4.
Farther back, there used to be no reroute pay at all, and you couldn’t actually be rerouted.
When they squeezed all the trip credit out of the airline in 2018, things started breaking all the time and they started to massively use reroute to operate the airline.
The previous version of L4 was impossible for the line pilot to police and paid in strange ways because of a grievance settlement, if at all. With all the RRs going on, the focus seemed to be on trying to deter the company from their obsession with using RR with premium pay.
L8/9 seemed to operate ok in the few instances it got triggered, so I think all the focus was placed on the L4 issue. The one change they did make is L8/9 pay became stackable with L4, rather than greater of.
03-18-2026 | 03:37 AM
#4923
Moderator
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,332
Likes: 1,342
Quoting you because it was the last one. Fangs, there is a lot going on in SRH example 6. I’ll break it down in a second.
But overall: REG pilots are on off days/time immediately after rotation release. So, as soon as a REG pilot is rerouted and scheduled to release >4h late, that duty period gets L8, as do all duty periods that infringe on a REG day off.
RES pilots return to LC status until 2359 of their last LC day. Example: scheduled release on the last LC day at 1200 base time. Rerouted to release 1900 base time, still on a LC day. The trigger of “interrupted an X day” is not met.
I’ll say it again, just in case: if a rerouted duty period does not infringe on an X day, on a duty period by duty period basis, L9 is not due for that duty period.
The SRH language only covers REG. They don’t do a good job of covering RES at all.
But overall: REG pilots are on off days/time immediately after rotation release. So, as soon as a REG pilot is rerouted and scheduled to release >4h late, that duty period gets L8, as do all duty periods that infringe on a REG day off.
RES pilots return to LC status until 2359 of their last LC day. Example: scheduled release on the last LC day at 1200 base time. Rerouted to release 1900 base time, still on a LC day. The trigger of “interrupted an X day” is not met.
I’ll say it again, just in case: if a rerouted duty period does not infringe on an X day, on a duty period by duty period basis, L9 is not due for that duty period.
The SRH language only covers REG. They don’t do a good job of covering RES at all.
03-18-2026 | 05:31 AM
#4924
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 1,308
Likes: 375
Delays cannot not trigger L9.
The L9 trigger is two-fold. Reroute scheduled to release >4 hours late AND interrupt an X day. Without both, there is no L9.
The L8 trigger is single. Reroute scheduled to release >4 hours.
Here’s a different example to help: RES on a 3-day GS all on X days. The last duty period is rerouted, say swapping a penalty lap for a layover at another location. The next day is a LC day (rerouted into the LC day). This duty period is scheduled to release > 4 hours late. L9 is paid for the original last duty period. It is not paid for the new last duty period AND it is not paid for the trip credit (TRP, MCD, ADG), as the final duty period DOES NOT INFRINGE on an X day.
The L9 trigger is two-fold. Reroute scheduled to release >4 hours late AND interrupt an X day. Without both, there is no L9.
The L8 trigger is single. Reroute scheduled to release >4 hours.
Here’s a different example to help: RES on a 3-day GS all on X days. The last duty period is rerouted, say swapping a penalty lap for a layover at another location. The next day is a LC day (rerouted into the LC day). This duty period is scheduled to release > 4 hours late. L9 is paid for the original last duty period. It is not paid for the new last duty period AND it is not paid for the trip credit (TRP, MCD, ADG), as the final duty period DOES NOT INFRINGE on an X day.
I know you already know this, but this is an unfortunate aspect in many ways on RES. A RES GS/QS/IA on only x-days rerouted into a LC day loses out on not only L9 pay, but all the trip credit that would have been above guarantee.
This raises another question though, and that's the timeliness of PB/PR application. The situation you describe (RR into LC day) SHOULD only be possible on a carry-out trip with LC days at the very start of the next bid period. If it happened in the middle of a bid period, I think the RR should immediately trigger PB/PR and the LC day isn't there anymore.
03-18-2026 | 05:42 AM
#4925
Roll’n Thunder
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,149
Likes: 562
From: Pilot
That is very (not) helpful example. By that I mean thank you for posting it, I understand it better now, but it's not what I wanted to hear.
I know you already know this, but this is an unfortunate aspect in many ways on RES. A RES GS/QS/IA on only x-days rerouted into a LC day loses out on not only L9 pay, but all the trip credit that would have been above guarantee.
This raises another question though, and that's the timeliness of PB/PR application. The situation you describe (RR into LC day) SHOULD only be possible on a carry-out trip with LC days at the very start of the next bid period. If it happened in the middle of a bid period, I think the RR should immediately trigger PB/PR and the LC day isn't there anymore.
I know you already know this, but this is an unfortunate aspect in many ways on RES. A RES GS/QS/IA on only x-days rerouted into a LC day loses out on not only L9 pay, but all the trip credit that would have been above guarantee.
This raises another question though, and that's the timeliness of PB/PR application. The situation you describe (RR into LC day) SHOULD only be possible on a carry-out trip with LC days at the very start of the next bid period. If it happened in the middle of a bid period, I think the RR should immediately trigger PB/PR and the LC day isn't there anymore.
Everyone should be putting in their contract surveys that RES pilots should get the full value of any GS/IA/QS on top of RES guarantee no matter whether the underlying day was LC or X. PB days would still only be generated for violated X days, but if you're doing any type of flying that you weren't eligible to be assigned as a standard LC pilot, then you should get the full trip value as premium pay.
03-18-2026 | 06:08 AM
#4926
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 1,308
Likes: 375
Ancillary to this conversation -
Everyone should be putting in their contract surveys that RES pilots should get the full value of any GS/IA/QS on top of RES guarantee no matter whether the underlying day was LC or X. PB days would still only be generated for violated X days, but if you're doing any type of flying that you weren't eligible to be assigned as a standard LC pilot, then you should get the full trip value as premium pay.
Everyone should be putting in their contract surveys that RES pilots should get the full value of any GS/IA/QS on top of RES guarantee no matter whether the underlying day was LC or X. PB days would still only be generated for violated X days, but if you're doing any type of flying that you weren't eligible to be assigned as a standard LC pilot, then you should get the full trip value as premium pay.
03-18-2026 | 07:28 AM
#4927
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2024
Posts: 391
Likes: 75
That is very (not) helpful example. By that I mean thank you for posting it, I understand it better now, but it's not what I wanted to hear.
I know you already know this, but this is an unfortunate aspect in many ways on RES. A RES GS/QS/IA on only x-days rerouted into a LC day loses out on not only L9 pay, but all the trip credit that would have been above guarantee.
This raises another question though, and that's the timeliness of PB/PR application. The situation you describe (RR into LC day) SHOULD only be possible on a carry-out trip with LC days at the very start of the next bid period. If it happened in the middle of a bid period, I think the RR should immediately trigger PB/PR and the LC day isn't there anymore.
I know you already know this, but this is an unfortunate aspect in many ways on RES. A RES GS/QS/IA on only x-days rerouted into a LC day loses out on not only L9 pay, but all the trip credit that would have been above guarantee.
This raises another question though, and that's the timeliness of PB/PR application. The situation you describe (RR into LC day) SHOULD only be possible on a carry-out trip with LC days at the very start of the next bid period. If it happened in the middle of a bid period, I think the RR should immediately trigger PB/PR and the LC day isn't there anymore.
It is even worse now that pre-posted rest blocks RES pilots from YS (and many more effects).
In the above situation, the PB/PR would be applied to the next LC day after release. Screwed both ways!
03-19-2026 | 07:37 AM
#4928
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2024
Posts: 24
Likes: 6
Question regarding a carry out pairing next month April into May.. if reserve coverage is good on those days in April can I PD the trip when PCS runs on the 20th of this month? I am a REG line holder.
The PWA section I found isn’t totally clear and am hearing an even split on answers to this question. Thanks in advance
The PWA section I found isn’t totally clear and am hearing an even split on answers to this question. Thanks in advance
03-19-2026 | 07:43 AM
#4929
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2025
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 851
Question regarding a carry out pairing next month April into May.. if reserve coverage is good on those days in April can I PD the trip when PCS runs on the 20th of this month? I am a REG line holder.
The PWA section I found isn’t totally clear and am hearing an even split on answers to this question. Thanks in advance
The PWA section I found isn’t totally clear and am hearing an even split on answers to this question. Thanks in advance
Also SRH page 81: "A pilot is allowed to drop or swap a carry-out rotation prior to the close of line bidding for the subsequent bid period if the number of reserves available in the current bid period is sufficient. It will be assumed that the number of reserves available in the subsequent bid period will be sufficient."
03-19-2026 | 07:45 AM
#4930
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2024
Posts: 24
Likes: 6
Yes, you can.
SRH page 81: "A pilot is allowed to drop or swap a carry-out rotation prior to the close of line bidding for the subsequent bid period if the number of reserves available in the current bid period is sufficient. It will be assumed that the number of reserves available in the subsequent bid period will be sufficient."
SRH page 81: "A pilot is allowed to drop or swap a carry-out rotation prior to the close of line bidding for the subsequent bid period if the number of reserves available in the current bid period is sufficient. It will be assumed that the number of reserves available in the subsequent bid period will be sufficient."
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