Positive space commuting is really stupid. Each seat in each airplane represents millions of dollars of revenue for the company, which is revenue to make everything work including your paycheck. Look, lots of pilots getting Delta One to Europe via standby the weekend school gets out in June for their whole family every summer would be really sweet, but just think for a second, that many empty seats is not good news for your company, which you should care about. Thousands of seats per day blocked off permanently, ticket sales permanently lost, otherwise potential cash flow thrown out the door to convenience an outrageous lifestyle demand. Positive space commuting would turn sane people who don't want to commute into commuters because now it's easy and stress-free. That's thousands of seats per day which are lost revenue to the company and millions of dollars per week. Then, flight attendants would get PS commuting soon enough, it's only fair (heck the case for them getting it is better than pilots, they get paid less and benefit from living in cheaper places).

In every industry under the sun, people move for a job. People pack up the Subaru and drive across the country for a few grand a year, for a good opportunity. This is what normal people do in every single industry. The people who aren't willing to move for opportunity lose out. Just because you can commute doesn't mean you should, and just because you've made that choice (and you're free to make it) doesn't mean that that choice, which no worker in any industry outside of pilots and flight attendants can even entertain, is one which the company should subsidize. Sorry. Think of the big picture. If you told the average American that if they moved to one of a half dozen or so cities, they could (by themselves) earn a top 5% U.S. salary in 5 years if they just moved, they'd think you're bonkers for not doing it, and would move in a heartbeat. If you don't want to do what you would HAVE to do if you had literally any other job, at least suck up your choice to put up with commuting, and not expect the company to pay for it (and how do you compensate the people who do live in base?).

Assume each seat makes $250 per day (at $0.21 RASM at DL, that's 1200 miles per day, which is a reasonable average), and 1,000 pilots commute PS per day, thats $91,000,000 per year of lost revenue. Sure, there's often empty seats, the lost revenue would be lower in practice, yadda yadda, but that is the request you're making when you ask for PS. If half the pilots commute, that's an extra $10k to them per year because of their own lifestyle choice. While DL is doing very well financially right now, at American that number represents 15% of their 2024 net income. Is that really a reasonable demand for what the shareholder would fairly consider an unreasonable lifestyle choice?

 

RG, that you?

 

What is the financial cost of PS commuting? Idk what the cost of pilots is, lets say $5B a year.

Next contract, how much of an increase are we wanting and how much would PS cost of that demand?

And would a pilot get to count the commute towards duty day?

 

“Normal people” work in one city. I don’t work in my base. It’s simply a city where I start / end most, but not all, of my trips. If a trip starts or ends with a DH, then I don’t even see my base. On average, I spend about one night per month there.

$91 million in added value is quite reasonable and is well below the cost of many other QOL items we’ve added in recent years.

The 23M7 / auto-accept debacle alone costs the company more, and comes with a rising price tag as the 23M7 enforcement rate increases. When the time is right, that can be leveraged into something of significant value to the pilot group.

 

The pure short call lines almost generally go to the most junior. It has almost nothing to do with who lives in base or commutes.

 

Really?! We already have positive space commuting, with parameters (commuter clause). So we’re going to waste negotiating capital on something that every other employee group will subsequently demand? Goodbye profit sharing. Goodbye non-revving. (Please don’t say “non-revving is impossible”… my family successfully non-revs a lot and that’s an important benefit to this job for every employee group).

Ive also heard from TOP MEN that positive space commuting is an absolute non starter for the company. Lots of other things I’d like to see fixed in our contract. If positive space were to even be in the discussion with the company, we’d have to give up a lot to get it. What are you willing to give up?

 

Exactly, even when I was a commuter, I wouldn’t give up what it takes to get positive space commuting.

 

We don’t need PS commuting…..we need delta to get in this century and open up some bases.

And I’ll say it…..re-visit virtual basing…..change the language that made it undesirable. I’d venture to guess there’s a lot less PTC mafia these days whining about losing their flying than there was when VBs were introduced.

 

We don't have it. It's not contractual and the company fights to not honor it anyways I'd happily take a no discipline UTC in the PWA as a starting point.

I don't know why you all fall for the company doom and gloom. You know that pilots ride in seats to work all the time and we are still the most profitable airline on earth. AND, when he has PSC, we are still the most profitable airline on earth.

To your comment that was effectively, "suck it up and move," you conveniently ignore the many, many jobs where living in your home office location is not required. You can live wherever you want and the company will fly you where there need you. Want to guess what all those jobs have in common? Extensive travel requirements

 

This. Would love to see how the optimizer gonkulates VBs as opposed to mega fortress hubs with statistically realistic rework values (delays, etc). My guess is a few VBs are financially advantageous over our current structure. First hack… VBs at every FA base.

The optimizer has deteriorated flying line quality to the point that there is no advantage to being ATL based. Ask any ATL 320A. Almost every single one says their schedule sucks. Including top 10 percenters. ER? Florida Express. 73N? The new ASA. Not the same as the good old L-1011 days. Add to that a significantly greater number of commuters since 2014, and ATL-based local pilots really don’t lose flying. It’s just not one leg to LAX for the 20-hour layover which doesn’t exist anymore anyway, so…

Like pay banding, I see VBs as a “we were against it before we were for it” issue (a reverse John Kerry).