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Old 01-23-2026 | 02:35 PM
  #351  
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Originally Posted by Johnnychimpo
how would that work? Don’t we already have 787 rates in the pay scale? Genuinely curious how aircraft purchases have been used as leverage by the company in the past.
A few contracts ago they said if we didn’t vote yes for that turd of a contact they would cancel the upcoming aircraft orders. We voted NO on the contract and the aircraft still arrived.

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Old 01-23-2026 | 02:55 PM
  #352  
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Originally Posted by marcal
We also brought 5000+ pilots worth of regional jet flying in house.
Great point!
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Old 01-23-2026 | 03:49 PM
  #353  
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Originally Posted by igotgummed
To those saying they can’t understand how 787s would be dangled in Section 6:

Tell us you weren’t here for C12, or know anything about C12 without telling us.
It does not matter.

The pilots don't care.

And you think management will just not order planes, and sabotage their network plan, because of what some employees do?

I don't know what it was like in C2012, but I'm sure that environment looks nothing like today (mainly, not having fresh bankruptcy scars that likely drove some of this psychology).
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Old 01-23-2026 | 03:55 PM
  #354  
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Originally Posted by igotgummed
To those saying they can’t understand how 787s would be dangled in Section 6:

Tell us you weren’t here for C12, or know anything about C12 without telling us.
Shiny jet carrots work on regional pilot groups because having flying means survival of the company. This is significant when mainline can pull your flying at any given moment. There's no reason for mainline pilots to care about new jets.
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Old 01-23-2026 | 04:06 PM
  #355  
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Originally Posted by Podracer
Shiny jet carrots work on regional pilot groups because having flying means survival of the company. This is significant when mainline can pull your flying at any given moment. There's no reason for mainline pilots to care about new jets.
Did you not read what I said about C12?

Mainline pilots, with 100+ 717s dangled in front of them, seemed to care a whole bunch when C12 was negotiated in 2mos and ratified 7mos early. Read your Contract History document by ALPA.
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Old 01-23-2026 | 04:10 PM
  #356  
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Originally Posted by igotgummed
Did you not read what I said about C12?

Mainline pilots, with 100+ 717s dangled in front of them, seemed to care a whole bunch when C12 was negotiated in 2mos and ratified 7mos early. Read your Contract History document by ALPA.
It's kinda cherry picked, the history, we didn't solely vote yes for C12 just because of the 717s

And I agree with the other posters, they can try that SJS crap here but it's not going to work with the majority of this group. They need the jets more than we do that's for sure.
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Old 01-23-2026 | 04:16 PM
  #357  
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Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo
It's kinda cherry picked, the history, we didn't solely vote yes for C12 just because of the 717s

And I agree with the other posters, they can try that SJS crap here but it's not going to work with this group. They need the jets more than we do that's for sure.
Exactly. The big question is how many pilots were going to vote no on C12 but changed their minds due to the aircraft order carrot? I view that issue more through the lens of it being ALPAs fault for even agreeing to contract language tied to orders. I don’t see any of those tactics working for our next contract.
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Old 01-23-2026 | 04:45 PM
  #358  
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Originally Posted by igotgummed
Did you not read what I said about C12?

Mainline pilots, with 100+ 717s dangled in front of them, seemed to care a whole bunch when C12 was negotiated in 2mos and ratified 7mos early. Read your Contract History document by ALPA.
Is there more to this than just Shiny Jet Syndrome? I have a hard time believing this is all there is to the story...
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Old 01-23-2026 | 04:48 PM
  #359  
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Originally Posted by Viper25
It does not matter.

The pilots don't care.

And you think management will just not order planes, and sabotage their network plan, because of what some employees do?

I don't know what it was like in C2012, but I'm sure that environment looks nothing like today (mainly, not having fresh bankruptcy scars that likely drove some of this psychology).
Anderson's last stand. No 737s or E-190s if voted down. He held strong too but we had a "new" order 6 months later. It actually got us the A220s so win/win.

https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/...aft-order.html
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Old 01-23-2026 | 04:49 PM
  #360  
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Not just C2012. Don’t forget about the C2015 TA1/2 ultimatum about 737-900er and the used E-195s.

It’s a shame they didn’t “champion the concept of no concessions” with all those turd contracts we are talking about here.

Half the pilot group has no idea what we are even talking about and thinks that failing to achieve pre-ordered crew meals in C2019 was a “concession”

Last edited by FangsF15; 01-24-2026 at 03:36 AM.
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