Here's a question that's probably never been asked before... Given the changes to reserve in this TA, I'd guess that some guys are going to bid reserve that never would have considered it. So, if you bid reserve, and only reserve in PBS, is it possible to be forced into a regular line? I'm guessing the answer is yes if enough senior guys bid reserve.

Having lived through many different reserves concepts from 19 days on call with 2 hours to report 24 hours a day to the 2001 reserve system I can tell you that most guys will bid a line first regardless of the reserve system. The exception is if a category is really overstaffed and pilots can be assured of taking the month off. Reserve is the most improved section of the contract since I was hired however it will still go mostly to the bottom of the list.
The biggest single change in reserve is pilots commuting to reserve. Its the double edged sword of improving reserve. As reserve has become better pilots actually started commuting to reserve. It was simply unheard of when I was hired. Every pilot moved to their initial assignment base. If you commuted you waited until you could be at least in the top half of the list on the equipment you wanted. Now guys commute on reserve and then scream about how reserves are neglected when it fact its the most improved part of the contract over the last 30 years.

NWA, I think Sailing meant to say yes! As far as the new hire lodging goes, It's much less expensive to them than requiring a type rating prior to training! See, we are better than Southwest. :p

That's the first part, and notice that it defines them separately from the typical line pilot.

When was this definition et al added?

Again, What does DAL consider a "Entry Level Pilot?" Do they consider them a pilot, or a general/ground et al services employee or other; non-pilot category for pay purposes?

Remember when you were hired; What dept were you assigned to? What two departments did you transfer to once considered a "Line Pilot?" Is this distinction because of the PWA or is the PWA because of this distinction?

This is one of the most stupid discussions ever on APC.

Haven't we given up a lot in this TA to help create growth, ergo newhire posititions? Was that not the rationale behind this Scope purchase and Early out? Moving attrition up by months or years moves up jobs by months or years. In the course if that process, you want to make sure newhires look cheap on paper, and get them in. That's the best favor you can do them.

THEN you negotiate benefits that benefit them disproportionately based on their paychecks, by reducing costs in healthcare, perdiem, uniforms, etc. These are good for all, and on a % basis, best for them. That's how you get the most bang for their buck, work on a unified basis, and avoid a dissincentive to hire more.

You guys are basically acting like a Royal Navy captain at Dunkirk, telling an infantry platoon you're going to leave them on the beach, because you don't have suitable accomodations (no cabin for the officer, and some of the men might go without tea), and you wouldn't want them to suffer sunburns on the deck for the 18 mile trip home. So they can hang out and wait for the panzers.

Newhires want JOBS, and they need money, every day, not hotel rooms for a few weeks.

Sailing,

We didn't have such dramatic seasonality back in the day of MD-11's to MCO. I think senior guys may consider reserve more readily in the winter than ever before.

I stand corrected, you're absolutely right. Thanks for avoiding hyperbole and condescension in your reply.

Yes, we have. Time will tell if the quids were worth the growth/gains.

Work rule changes keep on giving. IMO, the early outs were to soften the blow for the work rule changes. IE no or less displacements. End result less displacements overall, some AE's and less pilots per the block plan going forward. It equates to efficiencies for the company.

I found it odd that DAL did not provide hotel rooms for their new hires. Heck even ASA back in the day did that so I started digging on it.

Hotel rooms are contractually provided for pilot for out of base and soon to be in base recurrent training events, and for all for initial training events. New Hire pilots are considered ground employees by their department classification and paid that rate until they change departments which happens because they are now by definition a qualified pilot per the PWA. They are paid a salary when in the non qualified status, and paid guarantee when they are in qualified status.

It comes down to a philosophical point of view of how new hire pilots are viewed by the company and how they are defined in the PWA.

The pay here for a new hire is at the top of the US domestic airline industry. CAL pilots get 27-29 bucks an hr for their guarantee in training. That's less than 2200 bucks a month at the top end. Add 1440 for per diem and you come to 3615. That's at 29 bucks an hr. They also have no health care for six months. Put that cost in there and then see who gets more total benefit.

UPS pays their pilots a flat salary their first year. Its what 27K or maybe 30K their first year.

The only airline that is close to our total first year compensation is FDX and LUV.

66 bucks an hr for a first year guy is impressive. To put that in perspective; that's what a RJ Capt makes in year 5-6 at a regional. Its what a FO makes at NKS, B6, VX, in years three though five.

Should the hotel rooms be paid for? Sure, its a great thing to not worry about when trying to get though training, but again, its the philosophical point of view of what new hire; non-qualified pilots are defined and seen as. To change the hotel thing, you need to change more than just the hotel being paid for.

Initially we were Dept 35, then Dept 30 after initial training. Regarding where the distinction lies, I'm not aware.

This is the most important point which makes the first year transition much easier. This aspect is industry leading.