Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1258069)

Why don't you include 80clamp and ftb in that tirade?

Because we're just too damn interesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 1258077)

We covered this back when you'd pledged allegiance to DPA...

I provided an example of a dysfunctional union structure, and that is APA. They have member election of their national officers and domicile election of their Locals which make up the APA Board of Directors. As such, the National Officers have a very limited check/balance with their Board.

When Lloyd Hill was elected APA president he was pushing for a 52% payraise. His opponent wanted 35%. The election became over who could pander the most. APA pilots elected Hill and they got nothing. The APA Board had limited power to correct Hill's direction because he was popularly elected. They have had a history of National/Board dysfunction due to this structure.

Our structure is different. The MEC Chair works for the MEC (the elected LEC officers). He is wholly accountable to them, so he has to keep at a minimum both a senatorial and roll call majority of the group "pleased" with his performance. His "power" is that of chief executive of the MEC; iow he executes the collective will of the body. The MEC is ultimately responsible and accountable for his performance.

I'm sure you'll point to the US Government as an example of popular election, but in my view that's wholly different. First, I don't think anybody would say the current dysfunction between Congress and the Executive Branch is the optimum way to do the monetary/business portion of the people's business. Also, the US Government is responsible for substantially all the people's business. As such, they can print money, enter into contracts, make war, etc. The scope of our contract and MEC Chairman is far less.

You've opined on the election of the MEC Chair. I believe it to be a bad move and have shown some concrete examples. Why do you think it's a good move?

It's funny you bring up the APA and that the problem is you get to vote for the best person that panders. But what you call pandering might actually just be listening to the pilot group and being willing to state an objective publicly and be judged on the results. I see nothing wrong with that. You may want to deride the constitutional government that the founders put in place but I personally think it's brilliant with the best part, the checks and balances are mostly done in public. And the other best part is I have the right to vote in or out not only my local leadership but my national leadership as the ultimate checks and balance.

So why do I think it's a good move? Look at what I put in bold. What are the checks and balances that the pilot group has when that is not what happens and things flow the wrong way?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1258036)

I'd love to see the unionoids screw themselves into the ceiling at the thought of changing that.

"We've always done it that way! CHANGE IS WRONG!"

Just look at slowplay's reaction as an example. No reason why it won't work, just a devout no.

The biggest reason for not changing it, to me, seems to be the loss of control. I mean what if Carl Spackler ran? :D

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln...lzqyo1_500.jpg

I'd have to think, for some, that that would go over like a wet fart in church.

But seriously, to me I'd rather deal with panderers than a system that hides behind unpublished survey results and the notion that you can't negotiate in public. Imagine that a U.S. Government in which you didn't elect your President, only your Rep, and everything was behind closed doors and all you had were assurances that whatever is produced is the only way? I don't think it would be a government of the people, by the people, for the people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1258034)

FtB,

Things like By Laws. Changing them starts with a resolution at the LEC level. Of course you actually have to show up at a LEC meeting to present one :eek:

ha, they know who I am. I've gotten the emails. they'd just show me the door. :D

Just to be clear, in USSR the underboob watches you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzpat (Post 1258082)

Why is the dude on the lower left scratching his ass as he eyeballs the chick?

That isn't just any dude, I think it's Carl.

And I never realized how large the Death Star is compared to the planets in our system. Thank goodness the Hayden Pannertterte museum is there to set us straight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1258236)

ha, they know who I am. I've gotten the emails. they'd just show me the door. :D

Can't show you the door if you are in good standing. Might glare at you, but they will not kick you out. No one does that.Heck ill glare at ya, wondering who told Big Bird to show up! :D

All humor aside, the doors are always open to any pilot from any base. Those that are not c44 pilots in good standing or from other bases of course cannot submit resolutions or talk unless they are directly asked through the chair. Only time you see that is if there is a question for one of the committee members who is observing and available to provide input.

I have been to all but one meeting inthe last five years, and everyone one is there for the same reason you would be. Some may disagree, but the intentions are the same.

After a many year absence, I decided to attend the recent 44 mtg. Even though I have attended many roadshows, I stopped going to mtgings. (Mainly because I thought the average line puke wasn't received well.)

However, I have felt for some time, that my input to my reps is not enough to affect significant change. I must say I was pleasantly surprised at the level of professionalism and maturity displayed at the mtg. My inputs were received and debated well. I will definitely be attending as many mtgings as possible, in the future. I encourage those truly interested in changing the direction of our union to do the same.

Acl, it was good to meet you after reading your thoughts here for the last years. You have my full support in your run for the 44 FO Rep position. Good luck

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1258249)

My plan is simple. Elect a good LEC rep.

I'll vote... ACL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1257805)

If you're really in the mood to have a prop, you're an idiot not to take the ATR-72 over the Q400 which is probably why the ATR has taken the Q400 behind the woodshed in orders outside of Canada, cough, cough.

And you're an idiot to take the Q400 over a jumbo RJ with a similar price.

Now mind you, that assumes identical discounts which I doubt BBD gives in proportion on the barely ordered Q400 and does not include maintenance costs. Which I'm sure sets the Q400 back a ways...

So given the superb intellect of our management team, I seriously doubt they'd chosen the Q400 for much of anything.

Thanks for your analysis, I'll give it the weight it deserves, you've obviously missed your calling.

Those guys at Alaska must be idiots, what with all those Q400s at Horizon.:rolleyes:

Horizon brand being remarketed as "Alaska"
All aircraft to eventually wear Alaska livery
First Q400 next gen (Alaska livery) delivered in February

Are the pilots Alaska?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTpilot (Post 1258094)

Seriously AU lost to MISS STATE.. Embarrassed alumnus :(

MS State is a good football team... The Barn.. not so much.