Well I agree about the continuous spectrum of engagement it is not one or the other. If you think I present one side as tilting to one extreme then certainly some people, including yourself at times have painted the picture as tilting to the other extreme. Just because we didn't make it to $1,000 an hour it doesn't mean we didn't try hard or we didn't push things to the limit. The economic limits on our contract were determined by economics and not lack of will or effort. Markets do matter and we live in a society governed by markets. Our negotiations were extremely testy at times, engagement does not mean hand holding.

Some issues like the block hour ratio were a very bitter pill for management to swallow but we felt like we had to have meaningful protection for our share of flying if we were going to allow additional large RJ's. Management viewed that as imposition on their rights to manage the airline. So while there is no reason to be hostile, to try to picture the negotiators as bending over backwards to please management is just not accurate to any degree whatsoever.

You are not correct when you say we are concerned about shareholder value. No one cares about that in the union, that is management's job. It is just if you pretend that that is not a factor in management's approach to negotiations then you are kidding yourself. There is nothing I can do to affect the weather at my destination but I am foolish if I don't consider it as part of my planning.

There was a group of MEC members, including someone very close to you, that virtually hand picked the negotiating committee. Yet many in this group seemed to lose complete confidence in that group as soon as a TA was reached. Certainly you wouldn't push for someone who you thought would give up easily. They didn't. They reached the limits of what was achievable under the conditions faced at that time and then they allowed the MEC and the pilots to make their decisions.

I reject the argument that once a TA was reached then passage was inevitable. There are numerous examples in recent history to show that isn't the case. However, those examples also show that rejection of agreements rarely leads to a better deal and almost always leads to a worse deal. That is because if you choose your team correctly and if they follow time tested processes then the end result is usually the limit of what is achievable at that time in that situation. TA's usually pass not because there is some inevitability about them, it is just most of the time the majority see that indeed we did reach the limit and there is much more downside than upside to rejecting the deal.

So in the end I don't care how many eggs the shareholders get. They do, and at some point they will reach a limit on how many they will give us. The past five years have shown that pushing to that limit, taking what you can, and then going back and asking for more eggs has produced value. Waiting until you get that magic basket of eggs that is flowing over the brim gets you nothing as the magic basket never arrives.

Listen to that conference call and you see the investors complaining about our eggs, loudly, that might give you some hint as to whether or not they felt like there were a lot of extra eggs that we left on the table in June.

If this President doesn't get it done by the end of the year, then the challenger claims he will do it retroactively. But yes, damage will be done with delays.

$6M was their net, i just wanted to look at total operating revenue, total operating expenses minus special items and thus operating income.

remember when we had a lot of special items? I wanted to see without those as an indicator of what could be.

http://ir.unitedcontinentalholdings....882&highlight=

In my category, 777B, the most senior guys that live in base, get the occasional greenslip and parked trips just MAYBE rang that bell. So that removes 50% of the pilots more or less. Reserve 777A's make about $185-190K M/L so that takes out all Captains on reserve.

quickie napkin math.

For the definition of fickle, see stock market. HAve you been following AAPL lately? A mountain of cash and zero debt, yet the stock price is down $100 fro it's high. This all about politics IMHO. One guy wins, and the market will remain in limbo. The business guy wins, and there is a chance that it rebounds. Capital gains taxes going up are gonna cause many to take profits while the rate is lower. And $16T in debt is not good, and many people are starting to figure this out.

Showtunes, they define the human condition.
name the movie


T;

I much prefer the Timbo visual from a couple weeks ago, "I can fly"... "with a broomstick up her..."

That one was just so frikken New England. I thought it. He said it. Just picture me and Timbo in a house yelling "the hawppah" at each other.

Yes, Mr Anderson does, and he has said so on several occasions. We pilots worry about SWA, while he does not. UniCal is definitely the one to be concerned with...

Hurricane party at my house later today :)

EWR might get a bath.

http://my.sfwmd.gov/sfwmd/common/ima...s/storm_18.gif

60-40 chance that Virgin Atlantic may join Skyteam?

Virgin Atlantic in Advanced Alliance Talks, Branson Say - Bloomberg

http://guestofaguest.com/wp-content/...6/kerrigan.jpg

The key is to play dirty.