80 is not Purple, you're conflating the two in an obvious attempt to discredit 80 as a troll. In fact his only offense is refusing to swallow DALPA doctrine that wholesale outsourcing of airplanes with mainline size and capabilities has been good for him as a junior FO. Putting him on your ignore list is a convenient way to avoid answering inconvenient questions.

I've been floored by our stock price changes since the earnings call. Our management team is pretty much screwed if they do, and screwed if they don't. Like you said, they miss EPS by 1 freaking penny. DAL had perhaps the smoothest merger in airline history. DAL has lead the industry in capacity discipline. DAL is aggressive in all cost factors, yet these quarter to quarter guys continue to hammer our stock. :confused:

I had this discussion with the captain I was flying with the last couple of days. JetBlue beat estimates and its stock price fell too. I wonder if it has to do more with the broader market declining overall. I listened to the Delta quarterly report and it sounded like they had a smart business plan in place that's been proven successful (didn't care for the cost-neutral pilot contract comment of course).

Could you please enlighten the rest of us on what was this last gasp survival attempt to which you refer? There was no TA, nor was there even an agreement in principle. Since you have it all figured out, please clue the rest of us in.

And before you bull$hit a bull$hitter, you ought to know that one of my best friends was one of the CMR negotiators. I'm anxious to hear your facts on how Delta's final screwing of Comair has sent the rest of the regional industry into turmoil.

Since you were there, you can ask your BFF. Or you can ask a PCL MEC member that just got finished with their 1113C hearing.

Intellectually honest is just more forum spin. In January, my pay will have gone up by $55,000 since bankruptcy. So when I hear this bankruptcy wages spin that's all I hear, spin. I know Donald Trump probably thinks $220,000 a year is chump money, but out in the real world there are only a few forum spinners that would refer to that as bankruptcy wages.

The question is not whether we need to continue to raise our wages and benefits, the question is how. Right now, there is no one succeeding at raising the bar like Delta is. 35% in four years and you guys dismiss it as if it is nothing. On average Delta pilots have gained over 40% in four years that is 10+% per year. That is forum spin and completely ignores the real world that we actually live in.

So while you guys preach all or nothing, you completely ignore how the all or nothing crowd has achieved...............nothing. If you had a batter that was hitting .400 and one that was batting .000 who would you take batting lessons from. Oh right, the one without a hit.

Your talking about the raises but you haven't mentioned giving up work rules. Guess you wanted to "completely ignore the real world"

OK, without quoting your whole post, I agree in principle with everything you said, however are confused by the above statement.

The owners (shareholders, institutional investors) by proxy and occasionally direct vote put their trust in the BOD, and the BOD in the CEO and elected company officers who negotiate with our counterparts across the table. The owners do not have a MEMRAT on our TA once management reaches a TA with us.

I'm sure management is much more in tune with keeping the owners happy than we are, as their legal fiduciary responsibility is to the shareholders, as ALPA's is to the pilots. I would venture when we hit the "wall" reference negotiations we are coming up against that owner backstop of acceptability.

Obviously we don't operate in a vacuum, however provided we are doing our part to push as hard as possible (and reasonable) for the pilot interests, I have full confidence that management will represent the shareholders. I find the continuous analogies of proactive engagement or end up like APA/AMR as specious. There is a continuum of responses from one end of the spectrum to the other - comparisons of polar opposites to validate your strategy are suspect as they leave no room for shades of grey or that we could have done more.

What bothers me in your response, again very valid, is we seem too concerned with protecting shareholder value - which is after all managements job - and leaves me wondering if we pushed hard enough, i.e., hit the "wall" for ours.

It's water under the bridge now, but we will be negotiating again over FTDT, before 2015 amendable date, and sooner if there is a transaction type JCBA - I want to be sure we are pushing as hard as possible/practical and not empathizing too much with shareholder/management issues, which they represent themselves quite well with, and with considerably more assets than we have, all the while being cogent of the points you mention.

(Short version: help goose lay more eggs, make sure we get our share of extra eggs, let farmer worry about how many eggs he has to sell at market :cool:)

Correct, but it's only part of the story, undercutting GoJetzzs plays a big part here as well, as Delta came to PNCL and said if they can't offer costs like GJs, GTFO.

Welcome to the elite club of pilot groups having gone through the 1113 process! So to be a real airline pilot, you have to have been furloughed, divorced, company gone bankrupt and now we can add 1113'd.

I abhor the smiley things, but in the spirit of preserving the peace since this was a light-hearted comment: :D

...and BFF...really??