Selfishly but with some purpose I wish the purchase of pinnacle by delta triggered some sort of clause to staple pinnacle to delta to capture mainline flying. Selfishly I say it because i want to work there but purposely i say it in the name of safety. Delta training, Delta Standards, Delta philosophy. Not Pinnacle Training, Go Jet Standards, and Express Jet morals. This contract at pinnacle for the next 7 years ensures that all other regionals will have to endure a chapter 11 scenario to match pinnacle. To me that lowers safety and if a rj goes down, delta as a whole suffers. There is no reason in my mind that you should have to outsource an airplane that carries 76-90 people across the country.

I know why you guys would not want this scenario because you were all hired at Delta and you deserve the jobs you have and the money you make. I don't blame you one bit. Over the course of history there are times when things change, is this one of them?
Those of us at pinnacle have to make difficult choices now becuase its no longer, I'm single no kids living in an apartment. You can't just up and leave anymore. Waiting 4-5 years for a interview that can be cancelled at any time is no good plan either. My apps are out everywhere, but I really hope I end up at Delta in the future.

The 77 you started with were probably out of a pool of a thousand applicants. I have been on both sides of the coin. The military produces a fairly consistent end product which is why airlines have liked military pilots. A few always manage to slip through that are not so good. The civilian world can produce a pilot every bit as good as the military pilot however the standard deviation is much larger. The military program also allows pilots to experience many things in flying that as civilian pilot only hears about in conceptual form.
One thing lost in the discussion is that Delta has always placed a lot of emphasis on leadership positions held and education. This gives military pilots a large advantage in the interview process. They generally have had years of leadership training, management experience and above average performance in college. Most well above average with technical degrees. I once asked a interviewer at Delta why the high percentage of military pilots hired and he replied it was not the military training but the overall applicant. He said they typically had much better backgrounds outside flying and in the actual interview process they were far more polished. He said civilians who matched up in background and interview skills were just as likely to get hired.

Do you think there will be displacements off ATL88B to cover the 717?

If not enough guys bid it voluntarily, they will have to get the bodies from displacements, since we are not hiring to fill those seats. Might be the most junior MD88 guys, or perhaps there will be an equal number of DC9 displacements, to fill the 717 right seats, but if there aren't, well...somebody's got to do it.

I think anyone very junior, in a category 'out of seniority' so to speak, is at risk, as those ATL 767 Domestic displacements will cause a waterfall event, rippling through the entire list, both above and below them. There are some very senior guys still on the 767 who can go where ever they want...but that's going to cause more displacements on down the line.

For instance, I have a new hire class mate who is a few numbers senior to me (at 350 ish) who is still on the ATL 767 Domestic. He could displace into the 777 Capt. seat, which would cause the bottom 777 A to be pushed out, say to the 767-400, which will cause that bottom guy to be pushed out, and on down the line, it rolls downhill, and comes to rest at the DC9 or 717.

With regards to the bolded part of the quote, that is also in the nwalpa pub "Across the Table" Issue #16. Looking at it in front of me as I type.

After a quick glance, it appears nwalpa was given $19 Million per year in "credit" for the value of scope changes to go towards the desired management cost savings.

I have no ALPA position although I have done work in the past. Delta management negotiates with numerous other entities about issues that don't affect my contract. We have a clause in our contract that requires our DCI carriers to provide the same type of preferential hiring for furloughed Delta pilots. In essence we are negotiating through a proxy with the DCI carriers management teams to ensure preferential hiring. I heard little uproar about that.

There is nothing to see here in my opinion. Delta management is the sole determinant of who they hire. Our contract requires them to make efforts to review/flow pilots from ALPA carriers but other than the limited flow arrangements (that were in place in the NWA contract prior to the merger) Delta still has 100% control over who gets to be a Delta pilot. If they decided that this agreement was in their best interest then they have that right to make this agreement as long as they honor their contractual obligations to us. There is no one that has suggested that this bridge agreement violates our contract in any way.

ALPA is an association of unions that provide mutual support to try to improve the lives of the pilots they represent. In this case, the Pinnacle pilots faced a terrible choice of cutting their flying by over 50% while also cutting their salaries or have the company liquidated. There was no other plan than that. Delta management decided this deal was in their interest and that they would finance this deal; in exchange they would give Pinnacle pilots a leg up in the interview process to try to alleviate by some small amount the enormous pain that this deal encompassed. As a union member and a human being I have no problem with them trying to alleviate this pain. We have never controlled who Delta decides to interview (other than a few exceptions which they comply with) and so they are not affecting me.

I guess my question to you is that if you had complete control of the union and if you were there in the room, would you have squashed this deal? Could you look at all those Pinnacle pilots and tell them all to suck it because you had somehow decided they were unworthy of an interview at Delta? Could you then come back and explain to me why my life and career were bettered by these pilots' suffering?

I don't get any of this sturm and drang over this issue. As I said before this mostly seems like score settling of past grievances between RJ pilot groups. I find it hard to tell some guy he is going to lose his house and not be able to take care of his family because of some perceived slight from 10 years ago. Maybe I am just getting soft in my old age.

ALFA,

You make some salient points. I completely agree to not let past disagreements get in the way of future progress. I also agree that one of the fundamental tenets of a union is to extend a hand to those less fortunate and to look after one another.

I can only speak for myself, but for me the "issue at hand" is not having a Delta MEC representative in the room and involved in these negotiations that culminated in the agreements beween Pinnacle and Delta management.

As a Delta pilot on the bottom of the list, I'd like any new flow-up agreement with DCI carriers up to provide the same flow-down provisions our PWA has established for the other ALPA DCI carriers that have flow.

I also think there is a dangerous precedent when the Delta MEC didn't get to establish a framework for negotiations before Delta management sat down with another pilot group.

This is not unlike the trilateral agreement between the transatlantic JV partners that sets up a framework that clearly defines boundaries for negotiations, (I might add a new agreement of this sort now including Alitalia was just signed early this year...)

I wish only the best for the Pinnacle pilots and look forward to seeing some new faces on property.

I don't think my concerns are outlandish or rash. As a Delta pilot, I'd just like the people I elected to represent my interests included in these types of negotiations...

You might have a different view.

Cheers
George

You're not getting soft, you're just mis-identifying the central issue. Flyallnite had a good post about this. The central issue is one of procedures and exclusive representation. It's not even an issue, more of a question that's turning slowly into an issue, for lack of a coherent answer.

I haven't drawn conclusions, but I think you and Sailor Jerry are doing a good good separating the tangents and diversions, from the issues that matter.

Alpha,

I do not get your points. You equate Delta pilot labor to any other vendor that Delta management does a contract with. You go further to state that if Delta wants to do mutually exclusive deals with different pilot groups, none of our business.

You also state senior Captains are going to lose their house, while conveniently ignoring the plight of their First Officers who will be the guys really losing their jobs.

I don't care for the political brand of whitewash used to paint over representational malfeasance. Plain and simple, the Pinnacle pilots did not abide by Section 40 of the Admin Manual. Plain and simple, our pilot group got locked out of the room.

How can our ALPA be any more irrelevant than to not even participate?