Bar, thanks for your reply. I was of the understanding that PinnacleFO has. Pinnacle will still fly RJs within the scope agreement negotiated, and hopefully provide a better experience for the passengers than a typical regional would.

Pandora's box of regional operators has been opened. So how are we to contain the size of regionals?

Tsquare -
You and me with our 33 RPM record albums are so ancient we belong in a museum.
Even Clamp is a veritable old timer if he actually bought music on CDs.
Nowadays he would be considered just another brick in the wall.

I miss my old vinyl, but I gotta admit - The kids these days have found a better way.
Having 1000 MP3s in my pocket is way cool.

NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the wrong mentality. Cheaper regional feed means more downward pressure on us. Why is this so hard to understand?

Exactly. Why do yall think they over bought the crj200 by so many frames? (which ironically 67% of delta pilots agreed to help delta pay to reduce the amount of over buying of the 200 in C2012- basically like helping the rapist dispose of the knife they used on you)

When CDs came out, I resisted. Finally, I sold my whole (huge) music collection for, I think, about $200. Now with MP3s, I have a gigantic project in front of me to upload all my music to itunes (I wish there was a better way). My iphone 3 is full, so I guess the cloud keeps me mainlining apple.

If anyone knows of a better way, I'm all ears. I'd really like to upload the music to a format that I can keep ownership of and simply be able to migrate files to itunes.

Those are gun calibers. ;)

So is the 105...:D It makes the devil stand at attention.

I don't want to minimize the potential threats (present and future) of outsourcing at the DCI level, and I appreciate you shining the flashlight under the sofa on this one as consistently as you do.

That said, even when force multiplied by my inner cynic, I'm not seeing the potential conspiracy theory on this being able to play out unless we give up a lot more than we have.

Reading the part of the transcript in question where RA is all giddy about PCL, I think it was because he took an already super cheap "airline" in an already super cheap sector and made them cheaper. That's not exactly first man on the moon stuff though, all things considering. Not only could anyone have done it, it was inevitable regardless. And we're not done yet. Just look at Skywest, the current king of kings. With their 2015 cost reset coming up, Pinnacle just might never see the end of their 7 year contract without an "adjustment".

That's how it all works of course. We all turn to the tables in Section 3 and look at what we will make today and follow it up to the future. Yet in the regionals especially it never gets to the future, and if it does you are automatically uncompetitive. Longevity is the built in cost creep killer that can crush your competitive block hour bidding with the never ending barrage of RFP's for all flying, growth and current. You could have the cheapest contract in the world, but once a lot of guys get senior, someone else can underbid you and they'll be happy to do it because they think the upper left quadrant of their pay tables will take the sting out of it one day.

So PCL just ate a pretty large cost reset, is shedding higher cost planes for lower cost planes and has some degree of built in longevity resetting too because of the flows that aren't really flows because they have to interview but they're still kinda flows because inevitably a ton will flow.

As for Delta "controlling the product" I think he was just robotically repeating what every airline manager has been repeating ever since the first outsourced turboprop got painted in mainline colors. So what though. Really. DL created a VP position to make DCI "just like mainline" years ago. Heck ACJet (remember them?) FA's wore the DL uniform. There is nothing revolutionary, paradigm changing or new world order creating going on here that hasn't been around for decades other than the flow. Just a garden variety cost reset at yet another regional in the churn. Soon someone else will be cheaper and the process will continue.

That sucks, and I don't support it, but its a far cry from flying 100+ pax to South America in DL uniforms unless we give up a lot more than we've given up. I just don't see anything new here at all.

Ok, I stepped on my crank with my last post. The last thing I want to do is be a part of "that crowd". I guess my point was lost with the last sentence.

Thinking like management......they found a way to outsource cheaper and force others to lower their rates upon renewal. That's all I really wanted anyone to get from my post.

I have voted against every increase in rj size and quantity my whole career. Outsourcing has hurt my career. I just think you may be entering black helicopter territory with that one post. Although having someone who thinks of extremes helps bring attention to an issue most would never contemplate. Kudos to you.

This is all true to a point, but its important not to overstate its reach. 450 is 450 is 450. Done. Capped out. All the company can do is try and bribe us with our own money to give up more. While we might fall for it, I don't see it happening. And it is by no means an automatic manifest destiny. 450 is 450. 76 is 76. Unless they go bat poo crazy with 37 seat turboprops, it appears we just may have finally put a fence around this beast. At least at the DCI level. Standing by for the VA "partnership" to see how that plays out.